LDS vs. Internet

[jonnythan]

Illustrates well that there are two types of people in this thread and involved in retail scuba - people with experience of working in the industry and people without that experience. The reality is that times are extremely hard for people in the dive industry. Many have already gone out of business, which in most cases represents a personal tragedy, and the vast majority will follow. The one remaining retail outlet in this resort town (there used to be four) is struggling and quite likely will not survive much beyond the end of this year.

Those "cheap SOB" divers, not paying proper tribute to the local LDS, are not the ones to blame.

A business blaming its customers (and calling them SOBs) for its own failure is..... well, sad, really.

 

[sansky]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I couldn't find it so I apologize in advance.

I can save $500 or more buying online vs. my LDS. The sites I'm looking at are approved by the manufacturer for sales. Why shouldn't I buy online?

Thanks in advance.

The sites may be approved by the manufacturer for sales, but do they provide a warranty and do they service what you buy? ... and consider the cost of say sending back your BCD, regulator, etc., back each year for annual service ....

 

[Jim238]

One of the things I found strange when I went shopping for gear, was the lack of used gear available in the stores.

Not knowing retail from the store side of things, I don't understand the reason this is so. I've spent a good chunk of money this year on used gear. I went to the LDS's first to see if they had any for sale, and when they didn't, they lost the sales to Craigslist, Ebay, classifieds on here, etc.

New car dealers love trade-ins as they make a killing on their resale. The ability to make a single transaction as opposed to having to figure out what to do with the old car, is appealing to customers. Appliance stores are the same. they will happily take away your old washer and sell it to a used appliance shop or take the scrap value. Most durable goods have a secondary used market it seems.

Why do dive shops not accept trade-ins? Considering the cost of some of the gear new, it would seem to be a potential profit center. Picture Joe Customer with his 5 year old, sun fried BC. If he could get a trade-in value for it and get a spiffy new BC in one transaction, instead of worrying about the old one going to waste in the closet or trying to selll it, then perhaps it generates a sale for the store and a happy customer. With some support from the gear makers, this could even better for the store. I can imaging the word of mouth would spread rapidly.

Maybe in this case the trade-in BC isn't resaleable, or maybe it is with a new set of straps, or the reg set the customer trades-in next is. Having used gear available for sale would seem to offer 2 direct benefits to the LDS. One, is having more stuff to sell. The second is the opportunity to increase foot traffic in the store. I would think if it becomes known that your store also offers reasonably priced used gear, more people would visit. And that should mean more sales of gear, not to mention the little odds and ends at 100-150% mark up.

I know there could be liability issues, but good judgement should be able to manage that risk acceptably.

So why is the resale of used gear, or taking trade-ins, or consignments, not in the LDS business model?

 

[fnfalman]

LDS do offer used equipment in the form of getting rid of their rental gears.

Diving isn't like purchasing automobiles or guns. Really, there isn't enough of a clientele base to make it profitable to run a "pre-owned" program.

 

[peterbj7]

New car dealers love trade-ins as they make a killing on their resale. The ability to make a single transaction as opposed to having to figure out what to do with the old car, is appealing to customers. Appliance stores are the same. they will happily take away your old washer and sell it to a used appliance shop or take the scrap value. Most durable goods have a secondary used market it seems

I don't know if that's really true in the US, but it certainly isn't in the UK or the rest of Europe. Most cars taken in "part exchange" are either scrapped or (occasionally, for the very best vehicles) sold to a company for resale at a very low price. They take them as sweeteners for the sale, no more. It's illegal to re-sell used electrical goods without tests and certification that make such a sale totally uneconomic - I know, I scrapped a fridge freezer when I sold a house in the UK recently because I couldn't sell it. It was only 7 months old and had cost almost $1000.

Honestly guys, this discussion is really pointless. Look around you. Surprisingly there are some pretty savvy people who have got themselves into the scuba retail industry, and across the board they're failing. "Witty" carping criticism is all very well, but it won't change that fact. If it were one or two that could easily be attributed to personal failure (though in many cases of my experience that would be an error), but when so many are going to the wall there's a message. Part of that message is that before long there won't be any LDSs in large parts of the country/world, which means that there also won't be anywhere to buy a new mouthpiece, a hose, or get a tank filled. Already there is a popular diving area in the UK that now has no LDS within 100 miles.

And at a resort level in a place such as this, most operators are now struggling, people are being laid off, boats are being beached, you can't buy a PADI manual because no-one has the money to import them, and dive-dedicated hotels are on the point of shutting up for good. We already have some islands (in other parts of the world) where all the dive operators (and most other hoteliers) went out of business at the same time because the airlines decided to stop flying there.

Don't joke about it and fling mud - look around and recognise what is happening.

 

[Jim238]

Peter, thanks for the education. I'm truly sorry that people are losing their livelihoods.

 

[k ellis]

I don't know if that's really true in the US, but it certainly isn't in the UK or the rest of Europe. Most cars taken in "part exchange" are either scrapped or (occasionally, for the very best vehicles) sold to a company for resale at a very low price. They take them as sweeteners for the sale, no more. It's illegal to re-sell used electrical goods without tests and certification that make such a sale totally uneconomic - I know, I scrapped a fridge freezer when I sold a house in the UK recently because I couldn't sell it. It was only 7 months old and had cost almost $1000.

Honestly guys, this discussion is really pointless. Look around you. Surprisingly there are some pretty savvy people who have got themselves into the scuba retail industry, and across the board they're failing. "Witty" carping criticism is all very well, but it won't change that fact. If it were one or two that could easily be attributed to personal failure (though in many cases of my experience that would be an error), but when so many are going to the wall there's a message. Part of that message is that before long there won't be any LDSs in large parts of the country/world, which means that there also won't be anywhere to buy a new mouthpiece, a hose, or get a tank filled. Already there is a popular diving area in the UK that now has no LDS within 100 miles.

And at a resort level in a place such as this, most operators are now struggling, people are being laid off, boats are being beached, you can't buy a PADI manual because no-one has the money to import them, and dive-dedicated hotels are on the point of shutting up for good. We already have some islands (in other parts of the world) where all the dive operators (and most other hoteliers) went out of business at the same time because the airlines decided to stop flying there.

Don't joke about it and fling mud - look around and recognise what is happening.

Its not just the diving industry thats hurting its the whole tourism industry which to some degree is alot of what dive shops rely on thats hurting. People dont have the money thanks in part to greedy oil companies jacking up the cost of gas a few years ago and then put so many people in the poor house.

I know dive shops have to make money and there is no question on it but marking up merchandise sometimes well over 100 percent is rediculous. As I said earlier where I am at there is no freshwater suitable for diving for at least an hours drive so placing a dive shop in the middle of the most expensive land available just does not make sense to me.

I think a nice shop with merchandise to sell (that people want) would do much better then a shop telling you to shop there first then turning around and having to do the same thing you would do and have it delivered. Bar none there are 2 shops in my immediate area and both are great for teaching and gear but to try to get me a guy hurting for cash to pay their bad situation off is not helping me at all.

There was a great post previously about buying used gear and I think it was not a bad idea at all. I mean localy I know several divers who have gone ebay and craigs list crazy because they too like the LDS are hurting for money and must also cut corners to survive. This would only make sense to me as some divers dont mind a 3 year old bcd with over 300 dives on it and the wear to prove it. All they want is a piece of gear that is reliable and dependable. The shop could even beniefit from allowing the potential purchaser to use the pool and see if they are comfortable with the "As is" sale.

Now localy I dont know of the shops selling used rentals but I am sure alot of shops do and this seems to me would be a big seller especially to the brand bew diver.

I do believe whole heartedly though that if potential new divers were exposed to the cheaper used gear and could start diving for under 750 dollars using used gear more people would become interested in diving. Its amazing to ask non divers why they dont dive and so many of them say they could never afford the prices Aqua Lung and other price fixers ask so they simply never start diving.