PADI class has dive calculator instead of tables now?

[Divedoggie]

People shouldn't knock it 'til they try it.
Its a versatile little calculator that allows you to plan multi-level dives. The wheel allowed the same thing, but pretty much required a magnifying glass to read it.

Are some of you folks hard core slide rule or abacus users who have distain for electronic calculators?

I have RDP tables, Navy Tables, The Wheel, Altitude conversion tables, Nitrox tables, and computers to use as tools to help teach my classes and also to use to plan dives as needed and appropriate.

 

[Blackwood]

Well, that's just about as silly as I thought it would be. The thing that sucks is that they weren't given dive tables or taught how to use them, just the calculator.

It isn't a 'calculator'. It's PADI's dive tables minus the chance of sliding your finger off the row/column.

If I used PADI tables, I'd prefer this.

 

[The Chairman]

Are some of you folks hard core slide rule or abacus users who have distain for electronic calculators?

The amount of anger/dismay directed towards Scuba's relentless march to embrace technology has always befuddled me. It's all based on the same science and uses the same algorithms. It's just easier and with fewer human errors to get you bent.

 

[John_B]

People shouldn't knock it 'til they try it.
Its a versatile little calculator that allows you to plan multi-level dives. The wheel allowed the same thing, but pretty much required a magnifying glass to read it.

Are some of you folks hard core slide rule or abacus users who have distain for electronic calculators?

I have RDP tables, Navy Tables, The Wheel, Altitude conversion tables, Nitrox tables, and computers to use as tools to help teach my classes and also to use to plan dives as needed and appropriate.

Well, since we're dealing in dichotomies...

Some people object to new divers not being exposed to tools to help them learn proper dive planning.

Some people think it's enough to jump in the water and swim around until your dive computer's alarm beeps at you.

If the subject really interests you there is a year-old thread on the subject that Pete started in Advanced Scuba Discussion (where the Basic Scuba Discussion special handling rules don't apply). It occasionally rages back to life; knock yourself out...

 

[Cap335]

We started using them this summer and are finding both students and instructors like them. The students seem to catch on quicker.

Randy

 

[Pearldiver07]

I have been torn on this issue.

On the one hand, I firmly believe that students should have a fundamental understanding of on- and off- gassing, how the tables came into being (since the eRDPml is simply an automated table), and how they are used to calculate your gas loading.

But on the other hand, how many divers do you really see on a dive boat fiddling with a table? And many if not most aren't using a computer either. All they're doing is diving by the leader's assurance of being safe - the "trust me" dive.

I can tell you that most divers retain little to none of their memory of how to use a dive table unless they dive frequently. And let's face it - that's most divers. Anything that facilitates a diver's ability to plan their own diving is better than something that they don't even remember how to do. Have some fun to test out my theory... on a dive boat act like you are having trouble with the table and start asking some of those divers to help you. Even most of them who learned long ago can't.

I've accepted that the purist who strives to learn the nuances and technical aspects of diving is the small minority. Like it or not, most divers dive once a year or less on a vacation. That's it, and they don't have interest in the detailed theory behind it.

If we can get divers to use a table, a single use calculator like the eRDPml, or a dive computer, it's good. They're taking some measure of control over their own safety. Is it optimal? no. Is it another avenue to get divers using some means of measuring their gas loading? yes.

As I've said before to other new introductions: if it has any merit it'll be around. If not, it'll be gone soon enough. Myself, I prefer the wheel for a backup on recreational dives. But that thing has struck terror into the hearts of too many DMC's over the years.

 

[amcordon]

I did my OW in '06 and we were given the eRDP the predecessor to the newer ML model. The instructors still went over the tables but we were allowed to use the eRDP on the test. I'm glad they went over the tables because the following year I took the nitrox class and guess what only tables to use there. the eRDP is air only.

That being said when I dive I trust my buddy's computer (I haven't purchased my own just yet) and afterwards I do my tables just for the heck of it. More than once I have "been in deco" by the tables/eRDP and yet the computer still allows plenty of extra dive time, and its a Suunto!

 

[JMcD]

Brief hijack...

That being said when I dive I trust my buddy's computer (I haven't purchased my own just yet) and afterwards I do my tables just for the heck of it. More than once I have "been in deco" by the tables/eRDP and yet the computer still allows plenty of extra dive time, and its a Suunto!

2 Brief Comments and please, I'm not being critical, just hoping to provide a suggestion:

1 - I'd suggest that you shouldn't trust your buddy's computer - you and your buddy may have materially different nitrogen loading depending on your relative position through a dive (e.g if you are slightly deeper than he/she for most of the dive, even a bit, the computer is not providing an accurate reflection of *your* profile.) you really should be diving your own computer that goes where you go when you go. IMHO it is important and isn't a minor risk you may be taking.

2 Being "in deco" based on tables relative to a computer allowance is often the case if the dive profile you dive is not "square". This is one of the key advantages to diving a computer - irrespective of manufacturer. The tables work with a basic assumption/design that you go to your deepest depth and essentially spend your bottom time at that depth... in reality many (most?) dives don't go like that.

If you descend to, say, 40 feet to proceed to a wall, descend down the wall to 80 feet and spend the rest of the dive working your way back up slowly and when hitting the top at 40 feet make a leasurly return trip to your exit before beginning your direct ascent to the surface... the computer is constantly calculating the pressure you are under and the resulting impact to your thearetical nitrogen loading... the tables treat you as if you spent the entire bottom time at 80 feet. The computer gathers more information more often - so you are not treated as being under 80 feet of water pressure when you are only under 40 feet of water pressure... thus less nitrogen load... thus more dive time...

BUT - You cannot interpolate the tables - that is you cannot simply say "well I didn't spend all that time at the deepest depth - so I'll just give myself less time, or drop a letter group, or anything else... If you are diving tables, you should really dive the tables. If you are managing your nitrogen loading using tables, then you should plan your dive and then dive your plan using the tables. Or invest in a computer of your own that will track your own experience. (No, I don't work for an equipment manufacturer, but I strongly recommend you have your own. Very functional, basic computers are continuing to drop in price - hopefully you can find one that meets your needs.)

again - not flaming, just a recommendation - "trusting" another's computer isn't really a safe diving practice. For those that may flame me - I know it *can* be done safely if ... (fill in conditions here).... , etc, etc, etc... But it still isn't a safe as having your own.

we now return you to your originally scheduled thread....

 

[Tropicalwolf]

iPhone, iPad, or Android aps all do the same thing (however, not necessarily waterproof) for about .99

 

[DiveNav]

.....That being said when I dive I trust my buddy's computer ....

I second JMcD ... do NOT trust your buddy's dive computer! Get your own!
What happens if you and your buddy gets separated? (And sooner or later it WILL happen) How will you monitor then your ascent? And your safety stop?