Here is your chance to tell the Scuba owners what you want

[David Wilson]

But I want to have this post for what do you want or need to see from the companies that make our gear? what do you want to say to us?

I'm a snorkeller who prefers the kind of basic gear manufactured up to the mid-1970s, i.e. all-rubber full-foot fins, rubber-skirted oval masks etc. Although such gear remains popular, and continues to be manufactured, in the Far East (especially Japan), most, if not all, Western diving equipment companies seem to be in league with the petrochemical industry and just make fins with plastic blades, while Japanese diving equipment manufacturers continue to supply the market with classic all-rubber full-foot fins. What I'm saying is that diving equipment companies shouldn't confine themselves to their perceptions of what is national demand. Scubapro, for example, has an all-rubber full-foot floating fin in its catalogue for the American market, but doesn't allow it to be sold in Europe. Why?

Here are a few points to ponder:

1. When goods are unavailable in one's own country, make it easier for people like me to order goods from abroad in small quantities and without setting a minimum price for processing an order.
2. Consider always maintaining one classic item in your catalogues, such as Cressi's Pinocchio mask, retailed since the early 1950s. Some designs are eternal.
3. Far Eastern manufacturers in China and Taiwan often post images of diving products that they would be prepared to make. Sometimes western diving equipment companies pick up these designs and we can then order them. However, some designs aren't adopted and then any individual who would like to give them a try is expected to purchase 100 or more "pieces". Requests for samples from individuals are ignored, which is a shame and possibly an act of folly by the OEM, whose product may turn out to be popular. In other words, let's break down the old distinction between wholesalers and retailers. Cut out the middleman.
4. Make it clear what your products are made from, whether natural or synthetic materials, so that the purchaser knows what to expect.
5. In the case of fins, have a look at the German National Standard DIN 7876, which recommends which foot length should go with which foot width when designing the dimensions of foot pockets. These measurements are then embossed on the fin. Foot sizing in fins is a total mess at the moment. See how many ScubaBoard threads ask whether a certain foot size in a given model of fin will match a narrow or wide foot. Length and width dimensions in millimetres on fins would be a good start.

I'll leave it there for now, but am I too cynical in my expectation that diving equipment companies will simply dismiss my suggestions as too expensive, or that there's "no demand". Here in the UK a joke used to circulate about a typical shopkeeper who always said, when a customer asked for an item that was not in stock: "You're the fiftieth customer to ask for that today, but we don't stock it because there's no call for it".

 

[knotical]

Here is your chance to tell the Scuba owners what you want
The big DEMA Show is in November. I posted earlier about what your LDS can do to earn your business. And the response is amazing! But I want to have this post for what do you want or need to see from the companies that make our gear? How about from the certifing agencies? What are you issues? How about some atta boys? what do you want to say to us?

Hi colo_diver,

Just curious what you will do with the info you gather in this thread. Have you some kind of "in" with equipment manufacturers? I realize you own a dive shop, but lots of dive shop owners will be at DEMA.

Now that I might have offended you (which wasn't my intent, I'm really just interested), I'll offer my suggestion - that I've mentioned before on ScubaBoard. I'd like to see some kind of mask skirt that can be molded or otherwise modified to fit odd shaped faces. My face is only a bit of a problem because of gullies running from the sides of my nose to outside my mouth. But I have a friend with a very asymmetrical face who has never found a properly fitting mask. It would be a small market, but I am sure there are others out there with a similar need.

cheers,

 

[colo_diver]

My thoughts and plans are to present all the info to all of our reps.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

As ian said and I'll reiterate. Sell me my service kits! I am in the process of getting rid of all my regs that the manufacturer will not sell me kits for. I don;t want to wait weeks for regs to get done. I have tools and training and prefer to do them myself.

As for DEMA stop putting so much emphasis on travel. I know they kickback to you for this but local divers are what keep shops in business.

And finally more emphasis on putting trained COMPETENT divers in the water- not underwater tourists that need to be led around by the hand to keep them from getting hurt.

 

[friscuba]

Um, can I ask for live feeds from manufacturers' booths?

You know, that's one of the more reasonable comments I've seen in a DEMA thread lately. You'd think with today's technology, it'd be pretty easy to get two guys to do a live walkaround of the show and get it on a webcam and host it on DEMA's site, even if it was for two hours a day delayed.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't really know what DEMA has to do with the real world of diving as far as the diving consumer is concerned.
DEMA is closed to the consumer. Dive shops are operating in a parallel universe to the real world of where diving instruction and products are going. They for some reason have it in their minds that people only want the latest split fin and poodle jacket. So the dive shop owner can go to DEMA all they want, it's not really going to change anything.

The internet has given birth to a whole new world of diving and has branched off and has a life of it's own. Haven't the dive shops (and maybe manufacturers) been paying attention??

So what's going to be at DEMA this year that's any different from any other year besides more of the same stuff but just in larger quantities. If the owner of my LDS goes to DEMA this year is he somehow going to transform his shop into carrying stuff that anybody further than a basic open water student will want? Or is it just going to be more elevator levers and padding?

On the internet we have all sorts of choices, some of this may reluctantly spill over into dive shops (some day) but most doesn't.
There's BP/W, DIR, Vintage, Minimalism (and associated gear), sidemount, spring straps, custom suits, and a whole world of other really cool and different items and ideas that simply are not available or even heard of at regular dive shops.
All the above things (and there's more) I learned about through the internet. If I had to rely on dive shops to get all my info I would have never known about all this new cutting edge stuff and ideas.
If dive shops knew about all this stuff from the beginning they sure do a good job of hiding it from us, or maybe they're just living in denial.

The internet is not going away anytime soon and all the gear deals, ideas and training methods that advanced or forward thinking divers really want and use will continue to elude dive shops and it's only going to get worse for them.

In California where recreational diving in the US actually began it's the worst. I've walked into many dives shops up and down the state and in virtually every one of them I see the same wall of poodle jackets and the same display of split fins, and the same rack of little dangly retractors and such. It's almost like they mould themselves after the exact same model. They have nothing I can use. All they want to do is run open water classes and slam the student right into a bunch of padded up fluff gear that they sell. Later that same student gets wise and maybe finds SB or other internet forum and after educating themselves realizes that they were overcharged on a bunch of gear that they now have to sell for pennies on the dollar to get the stuff they really want. This leaves the new diver irritated and resentful and they feel they have been scammed.
That same student also realizes the only place they can get the real gear they want for a decent price is the internet. At that point all the dive shop is really good for is maybe buying new steel tanks (if the price is right), weights, and airfills.

Sorry for the long winded rant but until dive shops open up their minds to where the real diving world is going I don't see anything changing.
In a way it's almost too late, they've missed the bus.

 

[Stu S.]

Tell them we are in an era when value counts. Which dive equipment manufacturer has the moxie to team up with Costco or Bass Pro? Maybe sell directly to consumers? Once, you could walk into a department store and buy good gear at a decent price. The present dive shop method has the merchants losing their pants and consumers sore.

The prices we now pay are due to inefficient retailers and the profits of middlemen. Most scuba items are simple things that shouldn't command great prices. You can buy a good quality chainsaw for the same price as a cheap scuba regulator. Which of those has more parts and pieces? Is a $45 snorkel worth it?

New customers are the heart of scuba sales. There are potential customers a dive shop never meets. Most consumers would prefer to go to a real store, put it in the cart and pay a realistic price. Who will offer gear to the public that way? It has been done before.

 

[RJP]

You can buy a good quality chainsaw for the same price as a cheap scuba regulator.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything, but it's gotta be the funniest thing I've read on SB in a long time...

:shocked2:

 

[Stu S.]

I have no idea what this has to do with anything, but it's gotta be the funniest thing I've read on SB in a long time...

:shocked2:

Hello RJ,

Here you go... I showed some gear to the young guys I work with and they asked about cost. $400 for that? If you take a scuba item apart there are vey few parts to it, and none of them cost much to make. Some items, like $400 TV are a marvel of value. Dive gear "looks" too expensive to many people including me.

 

[F106A]

<snip> ... more emphasis on putting trained COMPETENT divers in the water- not underwater tourists that need to be led around by the hand to keep them from getting hurt.

I'll second that! But it's a business and the marketers ("M A R -- K E T -- ERS,UC give me bucks --- give me bucks --- etc." ) will do whatever it takes to turn a profit. And that's what businesses are all about. If that means dumbing down the courses, reducing standards and shortening them to the absurd, so be it. One other thing, buying trinkets after the initial purchase. Have a zoom bag with weight pouches. Lost one. Replacing it costs more than the BC (I exaggerate). Q. Can we keep these costs at a more reasonable level (per my definition of reasonable)? A. No, it's just business and you're taking this entirely too personal.