Getting in Over Your Head

[Kern]

On another thread on another topic, someone made a very helpful link to a psychological phenomenon that had a name. I thought I saved the link, but I didn't. Anyway, the main idea is that when people are still in their relatively early stages of learning a skill, they tend to overestimate their abilities. Conversely, people who have gone on to achieve a high level of skill often underestimate their abilities.

http://people.psych.cornell.edu/~dunning/publications/pdf/unskilledandunaware.pdf

I remember being told not to go into overheads, or dive beyond your training. Then we're faced with a multitude of very popular sites that have thousands of divers a year; like the purpose sunk ex navel & maritime wrecks, with their swim throughs & overheads. Or something like the 100 mt long cave/swim through at Fish Rock Cave, which is extremely popular.

 

[boulderjohn]

http://people.psych.cornell.edu/~dunning/publications/pdf/unskilledandunaware.pdf

Although that was not specifically the link I was looking for, it was the same study and led me to the link: Dunning?Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Peter Guy]

John, I talk very briefly about Cave Diving, and often show some pictures, and also tell my students that I've taken a lot of training to get there. I don't believe I say much, if anything, about not diving in the overhead environment -- but I do reinforce the "don't dive beyond your training" and that various environments, wrecks, caves, deep -- require much additional training.

I was told that one instructor (with whom I am familiar) is quite willing to teach a "wreck class" that includes penetration of a "sanitized" ship without teaching any of the (what I would call) protocols for penetration -- redundant gas supply, running a continuous line, multiple lights, gas planning, etc.

I also know one couple that did their OW checkout dives on the HMS Rhone in the British Virgin Islands and the checkout dives included the swim through of the Rhone -- which we did together several days AFTER their OW checkout. [Hmm, just went back and checked my log of those dives and saw that w went to 70+ feet -- I wonder if they stayed above 60' on their OW Checkouts?]

I ended up NOT doing my DM training with an instructor in part because he not only blew off gear checks but made fun of me and TSandM for doing OUR gear checks.

 

[DiverGirl1972]

Nothing cave or cavern-related, but when I was first certified, the thing that immediately struck me was how instructors and DMs, the very ones who spent hours drilling into my head the idea that you always do buddy checks, always discuss a dive plan, and never dive beyond your training or experience, would never seem to follow those rules. I was immediately invited to join on a dive to >100ft, and I watched as instructors and former students from my class just jumped in the water without going over their or their buddy's gear, or discussing dive profiles, separation protocols and gas management plans. Once I had the card, it seemed like everything I was taught was suddenly optional, at least if you watched by example.

As far as I could tell, that didn't bother anyone else in my class, but it really stuck with me, probably because I tend to be a cautious person by nature. It's pretty much what led me to proactively seek out higher quality and more rigorous education.

I have no idea if this kind of experience is common as far as new divers are concerned, but if it is, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that divers shrug off warnings, training or common sense.

That has been my experience as well. It has confirmed for me that I can only truly count on myself for my own safety. That said, ANYTIME I have asked my dive buddy, "Would you mind doing a pre-dive briefing and BWRAF with me?" they've eagerly agreed. It seems like the more experienced divers actually appreciate it - or at a minimum tolerate it because I'm new Either way, I can't imagine someone saying no if asked. If they did, I wouldn't dive with them anyway.

 

[tkdgodess]

what part of Open Water Diver don't people understand...

 

[aquaregia]

That was another thing. I do remember being told "You never, ever go into any overhead without proper training" during OW training, which brought to mind the distinction with swim-throughs, arches and overhangs, and "true" overheads. But again, right out of class, "safe" swim-throughs in sanitized wrecks were immediately offered without any caveats.

I was messing around a bit in the swimthroughs on the Spiegel when I had a bit of a scare. I managed to hit my yoke reg on the top of a doorway and realized that I was lucky that I didn't blow the oring because I was in a corridor, at 90', with a buddy with a short hose and a half empty tank. I said something about it during the SI, but my buddies (all OWSIs) figured I was being paranoid and that overheads were no big deal if you could see light and they were sanitized. They were probably right and I was being overly cautious in my head, but it didn't stop me doing 5 or 6 more 100' swimthrough dives that week (although I did pay more attention to my headroom).

To answer the OP, I'm very susceptible to implied peer pressure, even if it's unintentional. I've skipped buddy checks (and had issues result) for the same reason. Getting over this is my primary "scuba goal".

 

[TSandM]

I was definitely taught in my open water class that overhead environments were not suitable for open water divers.

Then I went to Maui and dove off Lanai, where the Cathedrals dives are very popular. These are lava tubes, I think; they are big chambers within the rock, with many window-sized holes in them. The insides are well-lit and the floor is coarse sand, and there is not a whole lot of trouble you could get into, unless you panicked and tried to ascend with rock over your head. But I remember thinking, as we did the dive, that it was odd that this seemed completely routine to everybody, when it was definitely an overhead environment.

But, like Gombessa, by that time I had figured out that everybody with more experience than I had was fine with me diving deeper than I was supposed to, with skipping buddy checks, and with doing little or no dive planning. So going into an overhead was just one more thing they taught me that nobody seemed to honor.

 

[Can't swim]

I'll solo but I don't do swim throughs, overheads, wrecks and don't even think about me following ANYONE into a cave or cavern. Anyone that thinks they can do any of those, except swim throughs, without proper training isn't someone I want to dive with.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

First I'll go back to my beginning as a dive instructor; this threads not ready for my beginning as a certified OW diver.

My first real dive instructor job lasted 3 years (north shore Oahu), and during those 3 summers the regular OW training site was Shark's Cove; a famous cavern site / infamous cave site.

Nearly all students can pretty much see myself and every other Oahu shore instructor/guide guiding newbs on fairly serious cavern dives, during their OW training dives.

I mean my students could see other instructors "cavern" guiding, and other instructors students could see me "cavern" guiding; any given day.

The shop I worked for did a lot of local certs. Most of my local students lived within 30 minutes of Shark's Cove. 90% of those kids WILL be under rock in less than 10 dives after certification.

A prudent instructor teaches the skill set necessary for the local conditions, right?

 

[knowone]

Could it be that diving in groups starting with buddy pairs, responsibility may decrease becoming unknown percentage shared, and the opposite proportionately increases, factoring out the no way doing this by myself business, logic.