GUE/DIR Question

[Blackwood]

just become a solo diver & no one but yourself will need to be satisfied........

There are friends, family and loved ones to consider...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I was sent this thread by a future student. Thanks Loon! I greatly admire the GUE/DIR program and the UTD classes. Had they been available when I first certed or had I known about them I probably would have went that way and actually saved a bunch of money. I spent thousands -literally- on classes and equipment that even though they helped shape the way I am today that would have been better spent on other methods. I went thru a great deal of crap when I found this board and had my eyes opened. My initial instructor was very careful to not mention that there even were other agencies. I thought PADI was the only one! And it was, now I see, planned that way.

At this point I'd love to do fundies but my interests lie in other directions. But the skills you noted do not have to come from fundies or essentials. Any instructor who wishes to take the time can teach them in OW class quite successfully. Provided they themselves have those skills. As we hear all the time some do not. I am offering buoyancy and trim workshops throughout the winter in the pool. We work on proper weighting, trim, and skills in midwater while hovering. I also do buddy skills with blacked out masks and touch contact. These are done for students I have not trained. There is no cert. Why should there be. These should be basic skills. And I charge $40 per 3+ hour session for the first session. After that it's 20 per 2 hour session. No need to do a PPB class for 150 dollars.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Hi, newbie here also, and like you, want to learn better skills, but probably won't go full DIR (at least not yet). There are other options for getting that training you're after. Check out some of Jim Lapenta's posts on ScubaBoard and his website (Welcome to UDM Aquatic Services). My understanding is he teaches the skills you're talking about, even in his open water classes. He's in Pennsylvania, which isn't exactly close to you, but might be able to refer you to someone with similar training methods.

If I can figure out how, I'll try to forward this thread to Jim via PM.

While Jim may be a very good instructor, what you get from a GUE/UTD class is probably not emulated by those not exceptionally close to the system of diving.

Also, if you think it is all about the gear and skills then you are only half way to understanding why its an amazing class.

 

[tuckerjt07]

Not meaning to be argumentative, however, I find great irony in these conflicting statements.


All the best, James

Finding irony is an easily accomplished task when statements are taken out of context. The first statement refers to GUE as an institution, and the second refers to the DIR approach of diving.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

While Jim may be a very good instructor, what you get from a GUE/UTD class is probably not emulated by those not exceptionally close to the system of diving.

Also, if you think it is all about the gear and skills then you are only half way to understanding why its an amazing class.

Fundies is a great class ... I took it twice, in fact, back when it was a much shorter class than it is today and got a whole lot out of it both times.

However, the OP seemed to be coming from the viewpoint that it was the only way to learn the skills he wanted to learn. It's not.

As you say, the skills and gear are only part of what the DIR system offers. For many, it's the best system available, and that's why so many are enthusiastic about it. For others, it's really not ... because the system sets limitations on your diving that may not be a good fit for either your learning style or your goals as a diver. For many, it's like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

The author of this thread stated preferences that preclude DIR training. Rather than complain that the DIR system should be more inclusive, I think it best for him to seek the skills he wants through other venues that are more compatible with his personal preferences and goals.

Although the DIR approach is a great system, and a fantastic way to become a skilled diver, it's not the only way. After all, there were people out there with mad skills long before DIR came along ... and there's people out there now with mad skills who have never taken a DIR class.

The DIR agencies didn't invent any of that stuff they teach ... they simply codified it into a system that makes sense, and that works. But in order to work, you have to take it as a whole system. Taking bits and pieces from it effectively nullifies the benefits of the system. If that's what you want ... and in this case it appears to be what the author wants ... it's better to seek your training through other venues.

The most significant consideration is finding the right instructor ... there are some very skilled instructors out there who are not DIR ... you just have to know where to find them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScubaFeenD]

However, the OP seemed to be coming from the viewpoint that it was the only way to learn the skills he wanted to learn. It's not.

As you say, the skills and gear are only part of what the DIR system offers. For many, it's the best system available, and that's why so many are enthusiastic about it. For others, it's really not ... because the system sets limitations on your diving that may not be a good fit for either your learning style or your goals as a diver. For many, it's like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

The author of this thread stated preferences that preclude DIR training. Rather than complain that the DIR system should be more inclusive, I think it best for him to seek the skills he wants through other venues that are more compatible with his personal preferences and goals.

Although the DIR approach is a great system, and a fantastic way to become a skilled diver, it's not the only way. After all, there were people out there with mad skills long before DIR came along ... and there's people out there now with mad skills who have never taken a DIR class.

The DIR agencies didn't invent any of that stuff they teach ... they simply codified it into a system that makes sense, and that works. But in order to work, you have to take it as a whole system. Taking bits and pieces from it effectively nullifies the benefits of the system. If that's what you want ... and in this case it appears to be what the author wants ... it's better to seek your training through other venues.

The most significant consideration is finding the right instructor ... there are some very skilled instructors out there who are not DIR ... you just have to know where to find them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree with much of what you say. Indeed, finding the right instructor outside of GUE can be extremely rewarding both in a social capacity and in a learning capacity. I know for a fact that you can learn just as much outside of GUE as you can inside, and I certainly recognize that there are many many amazing divers and instructors in the world that are safe and not GUE/UTD/DIR/etc. I have been lucky enough to find at least one of these amazing instructors. Thank you for bringing that up.

However, I think it is much harder to find an instructor, outside of GUE, that will push the unified team/buddy skills as much as GUE/UTD will. That was what I was specifically referring to when I commented that divers will get much more out of it than they expect--the OP seemed to miss that concept in a big way. Instead, it seems focussed on skills and equipment, which is the usual talking point when DIR is brought up, perhaps because equipment minimalism and standardization is such a radical concept. However, it is not the skills and equipment alone that have made my dives much more enjoyable; it is the knowledge, control, and team that are the critical things I learned.

 

[JamesMottUTD]

tuckerjt07
A major part of your Essentials/Fundamentals training will center on the proper fit, form and function of the back plate and wing. You may enter into the class with the idea that you love your transpac, however after you are presented with the logic of where you will go beyond your first class; you will see that you will eventually make the change anyway. Our training curriculum is consistent with this approach, it continually builds upon the skills, knowledge and techniques that you will begin to develop in your Essentials/Fundamentals course. The focus is for us to build thinking divers, complete with a toolbox of interdependent skills that can be applied in various environments and conditions.
Buoyancy, Balance and Trim and essential necessities that every diver should have developed, we require them at the most basic, beginner and fundamental level of diver training. These are the basic building blocks needed to construct a complete and thinking diver and you will build upon it all as your training continues. These classes and skills, along with the appropriate equipment configuration, friends and dive buddies and quality diving experiences will all work hand in hand at getting you to where you want to be.

 

[TSandM]

I'm not sure the OP WANTS to take a class that focuses on team diving. He wants better skills. You can find instruction in better skills in any number of places, although you may have to do your homework.

I tend toward a rather innocent belief that everybody who dives would be happier if they dove as a team, the way I have learned to do, but it's very clear from reading this board that some folks have agendas for their diving (spearfishing, for example) that may not work well as a team activity. If somebody has made the decision that a "DIR" style of diving is not for them, but still wants skills development, then I think it's a nice thing to suggest places where they can find what THEY want, and not what I want for them . . .

 

[Peter Guy]

NWGD wrote

I think, given your stated preferences, a better question would be to ask where you can acquire the skills you seek outside of the DIR approach to diving.

OP, I am a very big believer in getting the instruction you need as opposed to taking a class. IF you really want to learn the "Fundamental" or "Essential" skills, but don't want to take a class of those names, just hire the same instructor for a day of lessons.

I know the head of one of those agencies is (or at least used to be) quite in favor of giving "diving lessons." I know because he worked with me over a period of 3 months and I abstolutely guarantee I learned more in those sessions than in any class I have taken!

 

[zamburinha]

The way I see it, there are 3 component blocks to a fundamentals class: the individual skills, the team awareness and the equipment configuration. They are all considered critical for dir diving and a course like fundamentals or essentials is meant to show how it all works together, it would not make sense to ditch part of the system there.

However, the independent components can be acquired via different routes, as other people have pointed out. My personal recommendation would be to search for an instructor from a different agency who has gone through UTD/GUE training, discuss your goals and take instruction from them. I have discussed this very question with friends who are GUE T1 trained as well as PADI instructors and they have always said that they would be open to adapt their classes to match the student's interest.