What to do in the event that...

[MXGratefulDiver]

Jim, I was taught to dump all or some of my BC air and to use the unconscious diver's BC for lift.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. Ideally, I think using the unconscious diver's BCD to control the ascent is preferable, because if for any reason you need to separate, you want that diver going to the surface ... which will happen if you are using their BCD to control the ascent. If you are using yours, chances are the unconscious diver is negative, and if you release him he will sink back to the bottom. However, if the reason the diver is unconscious is because he ran out of air then you must use yours ... but in that case it doesn't matter, since you're basically doing a body recovery.

As Jim noted, using your BCD reduces the physical complexity of the recovery, since it eliminates the need to reach over the diver's shoulder and manipulate an inflator that may or may not work like yours (unfortunately, they're not standardized). But hose entanglement shouldn't be an issue if you're doing the recovery properly. It's one reason why you go over the left shoulder and under the right arm when making contact with the unconscious diver ... given a typical recreational hose routing, this pretty much eliminates the potential for entangling yourself with the other diver's hoses.

If you want some real fun, try bringing up a diver wearing doubles ... it requires an "over the diver" technique, since the doubles prohibit the standard rescue position behind the diver. Depending on relative size, it may also require you to put some air in their wing to get them off the ground. In this case, using your BCD to control the ascent only complicates matters.

As in most things scuba, the best approach depends on the situation ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dburg30]

Mpetryk, good point..... <<<snip>>>
It will not be with the Nitrox class, which is a joke in my book--this should be lumped into AOW, it is a tiny bit of information, easy to add on....the real need is for the basic dive skills. Again, these ARE taught by the GOOD instructors, but the shops trying to survive with the minimal modular approach, really need to push some real skill classes as mandatory....as long as divers keep getting churned out that think they are divers--but are not even close, there is a huge flaw in the system.

Regards,
DanV

It will NEVER be added in to AOW. If people feel most of the certs are just for cash flow, that has to be THE biggest cash cow of all IMO!! You are 100% right on WHAT it is, but no way in hell they are going to give away the $$$$ that gets charged for that class. I've not taken it yet because I just think it's a horrible rip off. I'm sure I'll do it, but maybe I'll get lucky and find it 'cheaper' somewhere. I mean a class that costs 1/2 the price of my OW classes and all it is, is knowledge and checking gas with a tester?? While I get that many people feel specialities and such dont really add to skills are just to make money, at least in almost all of those you get to have to dive

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

By the way, about freeflows ... the simplest thing to do is get on your buddy's backup reg and shut your tank down. That eliminates the noise and confusion. Then make an orderly ascent to the surface.

Depending on circumstances, you may opt to wait a few seconds and slowly turn the tank back on again. Often that will be enough to stop the freeflow. If it doesn't, go for the option I already suggested (surface while sharing air).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Guba]

As the old movie line goes, "What we have here....is a failure to communicate." At least meaningfully. I may be naive, but I always considered this forum, basic scuba discussions, to be just that...general discussions about our sport like the ones you might encounter at a shop or your average bar. A guy plops onto a stool and throws out a topic such as "How about them (insert team name here)", or "Can you believe what those idiots in Washington are doing NOW?" In such situations, one does not expect to gain policy-making political insight and the cures for all that ails the democratic system, nor do they expect a rundown of the entire owner/coach/player/fan dynamic of the entire NFL or NBA.

The person tossing out the subject is making conversation, and I think the assumption is that others who join in the conversation will be at least congenial, forthright, respectful and hopefully insightful. Do we expect the conversation to be comprehensive or in some way totally cure the shortcomings of our education or experience? Of course not. Most of us just hope that the musings of total strangers might help brighten our day a bit or provide a tip we might employ at some point in the future, thus giving us something to think about or try when we have the chance. At the least, it might serve to provide a reminder of something we should be practicing.

My suggestion is "Lighten up, ya'll." If you want to answer the OP's post with something constructive, go for it. If the thread is interesting, it will move forward. If it's not, then it will die quickly. But if all you're after is to criticize the thread, impress us with "vastly superior skills and knowlege", or pick apart the semantics of the topic, then perhaps you might want to head on over to "advanced" or some other forum. I'm sure you will be much better received elsewhere.

 

[DiveBen]

Hi Fuzzy. you may find the attached link of interest.
Regards,
Ben

15 Worst-Case Scenarios for Scuba Divers

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

You are asking for hundreds of years of dive experience and education to be encapsulated in a beginner forum.

Sorry but that is not possible.

Most people instead choose to take courses, read all the information available, and continue to experience their own dives. That is a fairly common approach to learning.

The "hey everybody on an Internet board, tell me everything known in the entire history of diving" technique rarely works.

That's cool. How about you post elsewhere? It's clear to me and the others on this board that you are not contributing (doing the opposite in fact), so instead of wasting your time with something that you feel is absurd I suggest you go somewhere else.

"Take courses, read all the info available, experience own dives "- and I'll add that after experiencing their own dives some may encounter problems that aren't dealt with properly because the classes didn't teach them enough contingences and they weren't able to read up on enough contngencies beforehand because the information was simply not available in one easy to find location nor did they even know the right questions to ask. The answer's out there on these forums, but you need to search for them, which means you need to know which questions to ask. But what do you do if you don't know what you don't know? You don't even know the questions to ask. This, combined with no easily accessible central repository of information other than a paid class which may not cover many situations, means you're going to stumble upon a useful tip only by random chance. And life's not going to wait around until you have all the necessary information to act accordingly. Life will go on and sh!t will happen. Why are you against even an attempt at compiling together in one place more safety information on these boards? You'd rather argue semantics than contribute.

I am trying to provide information! And to think that everyone has the time and money and even willingness to learn everything from course after course after course is absurd, not to mention courses can sometimes be hardly comprehensive even in their own subject area...

 

[wmw999]

When I was DMing we had a check list that we carried with us to make sure the students were taught these things.

Is that list available for sharing?

It sounds like a really great thing for me to use to start to address holes in my knowledge; either ones that I missed when they were covered, or that weren't addressed and should have been

WP

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Hi Fuzzy. you may find the attached link of interest.
Regards,
Ben

15 Worst-Case Scenarios for Scuba Divers

I really like this! A lot of those were not covered in OW, such as regulator mouthpiece falling off (stumbled upon that tidbit by random chance on the boards a couple weeks ago), and accidentally dropping your weights (clamp gets hooked on something and unbuckles), just to name a few. Again, this kind of information is not covered in the class and only by random chance can one stumble upon this stuff on these boards, and never all in one place.

 

[Crush]

By the way, about freeflows ... the simplest thing to do is get on your buddy's backup reg and shut your tank down. That eliminates the noise and confusion. Then make an orderly ascent to the surface.

Depending on circumstances, you may opt to wait a few seconds and slowly turn the tank back on again. Often that will be enough to stop the freeflow. If it doesn't, go for the option I already suggested (surface while sharing air).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This is a record - I am questioning two divers who are much more experienced than I am. First Jim, now Bob.

Bob - why would you switch to your buddy's air supply? If we assume that the free-flow started slowly, you should have plenty of air in your tank for a safe ascent. My concern with breathing off your buddy's octo would be inducing a 1st stage free-flow in their gear by doubling the air flow through their setup.

 

[TSandM]

Freeflows don't always start slowly. My first one was a sudden and violent eruption of gas from my reg (that ended up emptying my tank in 90 seconds). If all I had was a little extra bubbling, I'd signal "urgent exit" to my buddy and start home, prepared, if necessary, to air-share and shut the valve. Shutting the valve has an enormous calming effect, because it gets rid of the godawful NOISE that's associated with a freeflow, as well as getting rid of the bubbles that are obscuring your vision.