Views on playing with or harrasing marine life

[LowTide]

What I want to do is swim up behind the guy messing with them and grab him by his fins or maybe grab the camramans arms and pull them back.
See if he enjoys it.
Fred

I get mine grabbed all the time by my buddies, especially when they are trying to get me to watch them feeding a garibaldi. Doesn't throw me off.

 

[fgray1]

A friend of mine told me he once dove with a guy that loved to show off and grab sharks by the tails. Then one day one turned and came at him and tried to take a bite out of him. I think that cured him.
Fred

 

[kelpmermaid]

Well, personally, I fail to see any logic in tormenting or killing animals just for fun, but maybe that's just my perspective.

 

[gj62]

Most folks that have handled sharks, eels, etc have had them try to bite - some have even succeeded - I don't know how much of a deterent that is. I do know that most (true, not all) creatures that want to get away in a hurry can. The only real bite I've gotten was from an otter, who was just too damn curious how I was able to keep popping urchins out of them holes.

I don't know how tormented such creatures (sharks, urchins) feel - that's a pretty human emotion.

As for killing for fun, I just don't see urchins that high on my evolutionary ladder - in some areas, they're the crabgrass of the sea - pests that eat my abalone! I'll gladly feed them to a willing otter or garibaldi. I think training dogs is more tormenting...

Of course you knew that already, as we knew your view kelpmermaid...

 

[headhunter]

It looks like this jackass pulled the video from his site...is the pressure getting to you Rusty? If anyone is interested in a copy drop me a PM. We can work something out.
Christopher

Not that I'm defending his actions with the Angel Sharks, but isn't the fact that he took the video down an indication that he may not be the "jackass" that you claim him to be? I don't know him personally, so I can't claim to know the answer. It seemed like a responsible action on his part to take the video down as a result of public outcry.

I think we've all done something without thinking it all the way through, which is a topic in and of itself when taken in the context of diving.

I agree with others that this appears to be over the top. Maybe for some it is the fact that he put it on display that makes it "over the top". After all, this may lead other divers that may not have given much thought to this to believe that this behavior is acceptable in the diving community for all to do whenever they feel like it.

Some people on this board have stated that they think this behavior is acceptable citing that National Geographic and Animal Planet have done worse or that the behavior of the animal after being handled shows that it was not as bad as it looked. Do we consider it over the top when an organization with the intention of educating people does the same thing? Is there a qualified marine biologist on the board that can speak to the "trauma" that may have been caused to the sharks in question?

National Geographic and Animal Planet don't put the restraint of animals on display to lead impressionable minds into thinking it's OK for everyone to do this regularly. Many of us would agree that these productions are valuable teaching aids made available to schools or educational television channels.

I'll compare this to restraining an animal for the purpose of "tagging" the animal with a tracking device to study that animal. Ultimately, we learn more about the animal, which may actually help the species. This may also be said of a responsible video production which educates the public about these same animals.

I'm just trying to be intellectually honest about the whole topic. I still believe it was over the top, but am questioning the reasons that lead some of us arrive at this conclusion.

Barring the restraint issues, I think many of us thought that the video was kinda cool.

I'd like to know what others think about the topic in this context.

Christian

 

[pasley]

Just to complete the story. On another board "Rusty Berry" of SSA allegedly responded to questions about the video. This was before the poll started, perhaps he saw the polet and changed his mind, or maybe not. But with out comment from me here are some of the other boards stuff:
http://diver.net/bbs/messages/41299.shtml Posted by ChrisM on April 08, 2004 at 15:09:53:

In Reply to: harassing angel sharks posted by Chris on April 07, 2004 at 22:08:09:

He said it could be posted in his email to a friend of mine....

"Playing with angel sharks doesn't hurt the animals in anyway. I read the posts on your board, and you can post this to your board as well. Whether it's chopping up sea urchins to feed the garibaldi, or doing shark feeds, spearfishing, lobster hunting or playing with angel sharks someone always has a beef with something. The guys that have a beef with it need to get over it, or come out and try it. If someone has some major issue with it, have them call me the number's on the web page. Guys, diving is supposed to be fun....we as retailers make it that way. I usually don't respond to bulletin boards because they are generally are made up of a vocal minority of guys that just don't dive, but spend their time on the computer going from their bulletin board to porn. No ass kissing here. Bye.
Warmest Regards,
Rusty Berry, Aquatic Outfitters, Inc.
Scuba Schools of America
Montclair/Woodland Hills"

He allegedly went on to say in an additional posting:http://diver.net/bbs/messages/41318.shtml

Posted by . on April 09, 2004 at 01:38:36:

In Reply to: Rusty Berry's official response........ posted by ChrisM on April 08, 2004 at 15:09:53:

rusty@scubaschoolsofamerica.com writes:

>> Fortunately for me I have three more boats booked with people that want to
>> go out an do it again.....by the way I have a black sea bass bar-b-q this
>> weekend with some horned shark sushi at the store...come on by.
================================================
Now this was not communication directly to me and so I must put in the previso that there is a possibility someone did a mock posting. So take it with a grain of salt as they say.

 

[LowTide]

>> Fortunately for me I have three more boats booked with people that want to
>> go out an do it again.....by the way I have a black sea bass bar-b-q this
>> weekend with some horned shark sushi at the store...come on by.

I hope he has a big grill for the sea bass, they are quite large.

 

[Tygh]

Rather than getting panties in a bunch over sophomoric antics, look for the bigger issues that need our attention.

There are so many issues that are of greater impact on our oceans that people should be getting up in arms about. Commercial overfishing will ruin diving for everyone. A guy harassing a shark will not do that. Recreational divers can’t even come close to the sheer ecological devistation that commercial fishing causes.

Too much time is spent hand-wringing and finger pointing over piss-ant issues.

 

[Damselfish]

Rather than getting panties in a bunch over sophomoric antics, look for the bigger issues that need our attention.

There are so many issues that are of greater impact on our oceans that people should be getting up in arms about. Commercial overfishing will ruin diving for everyone. A guy harassing a shark will not do that. Recreational divers can’t even come close to the sheer ecological devistation that commercial fishing causes.

Too much time is spent hand-wringing and finger pointing over piss-ant issues.

Agree, there's always something bigger, but that's not necessarily a reason to ignore all the smaller things - or we'd have to ignore alot of things.

Divers have perception issues some places - we may know that divers don't cause anywhere near the damage of other things but some people think differently - all the more reason not to give people reasons to believe otherwise. There's something to be said for keeping ones own house in order.

 

[headhunter]

Agree, there's always something bigger, but that's not necessarily a reason to ignore all the smaller things - or we'd have to ignore alot of things.

Divers have perception issues some places - we may know that divers don't cause anywhere near the damage of other things but some people think differently - all the more reason not to give people reasons to believe otherwise. There's something to be said for keeping ones own house in order.

I have to agree with Damselfish here about the value of talking about the smaller things.

If through discussion, we take the time to understand the smaller things and formulate what our positions are regarding them, then we will logically and intelligently approach issues of consequence like the effects of commercial fishing on the ocean environment and our enjoyment of diving.

How we feel about the smaller issues become the building blocks for how we feel about the larger issues. I'm sure a good argument could be made for starting with the larger issues and moving toward the smaller issues as well. It gives us a better understanding about where the line should be drawn in the "grey" issues whether large or small. It also helps prevent knee-jerk reactions to issues that we may not have a complete understanding of.

Also, if people take responsibility for themselves and think about how they as individuals affect things, they may start to think about some of the larger issues.

To be fair to Tygh though, he does have a point when it comes to not "majoring in the minors".