what reasons have you seen people not pass certifications?

[hypertech]

I've never personally witnessed someone failed. I have seen people pulled aside who are having trouble to schedule time for more instruction who subsequently got it worked out and passed (unless they quit).

 

[Diver0001]

I personally don't like the word "fail" in this context and normally I wouldn't "fail" anyone who is willing to keep trying.

That said, I have had a few students that I declined to train past a certain point for one reason or another (mostly for their own good... ) and I've had quite a few that didn't get certified "on schedule" because things happened during the check out dives that made me ask them to practice certain things first and try again at a later date. Those students didn't "fail" .... they simply practiced more.

Of the ones I refused to train further:

- one couldn't swim and admitted to wanting diving lessons as a cure for aqua-phobia. She got through the intro dive without freaking out but I told her I would only train her if she first came back with a swimming diploma. Never saw her again

- one was almost literally dragged into the shop by her hair because her boyfriend decided she needed to learn how to dive. She made it through the first pool session and was asked not to come back. Her money was refunded.

- one I was unable to teach table theory. He could do the tables mechanically with a little prompting but was unable to remember it from one session to the next and was unable to do it alone. I decided not to give him the final quiz on the day it was scheduled and asked him to spend another week on the tables first. His mother (the student was a young teen) was livid that I did this and told me more or less "he's ready to take the exam and you will give it to him". I did not agree and unfortunately it resulted in a conflict which despite all attempts at being diplomatic didn't get resolved to the satisfaction of the customer (the customer is alway right... right?) and the boy was given the exam the next day by another instructor who didn't see it as such a big problem that he was unable to plan a dive. I should have told the mother that she bought him a computer I'd teach him how to ride it and certify him but that was before PADI made tables optional.

Then there are the students who start the course and quit of their own accord. These student's didn't "fail" either. The simply became aware as a function of the process that diving wasn't what they were looking for. In many cases the ones who throw in the towel are simply too nervous under water and wind up not liking it. After all, who wants a hobby that stresses you out?

R..

 

[g1138]

We had a basic student who was certified provisional at the age of 12.
He was doing the Basic Open water course at my university.
He made a few mistakes.

While doing a buoyancy check in the pool, he exhaled fully and sank to the bottom.
Next he inhaled and rose to the top, not exhaling.
He remembered that he shouldn't hold his breath, but he just wanted to see if he could do it. I think air embolism skipped his mind.

As a note, I was the TA and made a lack of judgement to stop him. I wasn't sure if he had inhaled or not.
He was completely fine though.
The instructor and other TA's were working one on one with the other students. We had a class of 7.

The next error he made was to breath a tank to 0psi on the surface, after we were packing our gear up, because he wanted to see how it felt. This was also during a pool session as well.

Needless to say he wasn't allowed to attend the checkout dives. Instructors orders.
He now has to retake the safety lectures and attend a few more sessions to convince the instructors of his ability.

 

[fisheater]

We had a basic student who was certified provisional at the age of 12.
He was doing the Basic Open water course at my university.
He made a few mistakes.

While doing a buoyancy check in the pool, he exhaled fully and sank to the bottom.
Next he inhaled and rose to the top, not exhaling.
He remembered that he shouldn't hold his breath, but he just wanted to see if he could do it. I think air embolism skipped his mind.

As a note, I was the TA and made a lack of judgement to stop him. I wasn't sure if he had inhaled or not.
He was completely fine though.
The instructor and other TA's were working one on one with the other students. We had a class of 7.

The next error he made was to breath a tank to 0psi on the surface, after we were packing our gear up, because he wanted to see how it felt. This was also during a pool session as well.

Needless to say he wasn't allowed to attend the checkout dives. Instructors orders.
He now has to retake the safety lectures and attend a few more sessions to convince the instructors of his ability.

AND grow up!

 

[bracko]

I haven't been a DM long, but the only person we've turned away was a 12 yo who obviously just didn't want to be there.

he lacked the strength and desire to do anything. he couldn't carry his gear, he couldn't put it together, he couldn't do any of the skills.

3 days in the pool 1on1 with me [with the instructor supervising] or the instructor then 3 attempts to do the FIRST DIVE [i.e. no skills] and the instructor had enough, signed his referral, told his father [who is a store regular] to finish the course on their holiday. will be interested to see if junior had more interest when in one of the best dive destinations in the world.

he talked non stop about his Xbox and playing call of duty (which is an MA15+ game)... so I'm guessing no.

 

[Stu S.]

I have a co-worker who could not equalize. Tried everything to clear his ears, but could not make it below 10 feet. He is a great guy and a good athlete, too. He never could get certified.

My daughter was in a OW class for high school kids. The classroom course was so drawn out that after two months nobody had put a toe in the water. Most kids quit due to a lack of fun. Mine quit and took a regular PADI class. I doubt any of the rest ever certified.

 

[Elvistheking]

We had a basic student who was certified provisional at the age of 12.
He was doing the Basic Open water course at my university.
He made a few mistakes.

While doing a buoyancy check in the pool, he exhaled fully and sank to the bottom.
Next he inhaled and rose to the top, not exhaling.
He remembered that he shouldn't hold his breath, but he just wanted to see if he could do it. I think air embolism skipped his mind.

As a note, I was the TA and made a lack of judgement to stop him. I wasn't sure if he had inhaled or not.
He was completely fine though.
The instructor and other TA's were working one on one with the other students. We had a class of 7.

The next error he made was to breath a tank to 0psi on the surface, after we were packing our gear up, because he wanted to see how it felt. This was also during a pool session as well.

Needless to say he wasn't allowed to attend the checkout dives. Instructors orders.
He now has to retake the safety lectures and attend a few more sessions to convince the instructors of his ability.

Holding his breath was pretty dumb but should have been the cue for you to highlight the massive pressure (and hence volume) changes near the surface, people hear "Never Hold Your Breath" but unless they have worked out for themsleves why, it may not sink in.

When you say breathed a tank down to 0psi on the surface whilst I can understand that it might piss you off (danger of contamination) surely discovering how the reg feels or the SPG reacts when a tank is approaching empty is a understandable thing to do. He just sounds like a boy with an inquisitive mind and I certainly don't think he deserved the grilling that seems to suggest was handed to him.

Out of interest he wasn't called James was he?.........

 

[Skydiver1]

When you say breathed a tank down to 0psi on the surface whilst I can understand that it might piss you off (danger of contamination) surely discovering how the reg feels or the SPG reacts when a tank is approaching empty is a understandable thing to do.

Easier to just breathe while someone closes the tank valve.

 

[g1138]

Holding his breath was pretty dumb but should have been the cue for you to highlight the massive pressure (and hence volume) changes near the surface, people hear "Never Hold Your Breath" but unless they have worked out for themsleves why, it may not sink in.

When you say breathed a tank down to 0psi on the surface whilst I can understand that it might piss you off (danger of contamination) surely discovering how the reg feels or the SPG reacts when a tank is approaching empty is a understandable thing to do. He just sounds like a boy with an inquisitive mind and I certainly don't think he deserved the grilling that seems to suggest was handed to him.

Out of interest he wasn't called James was he?.........

Nope, not a James. He is a sophomore at UC Santa Cruz. Probably 19-20 years old.
I assure you the instructors cover air embolism and how it can be caused, both during lectures and pool sessions.

I definitely did reiterate why he shouldn't hold his breath, also assured him we'd keep an eye on him for the rest of the pool session and told him to tell us if he felt any different.

And he didn't get grilled at all. From my understanding the instructor told him why he wasn't allowed to do the checkout dives and what he had to do to be able to dive the following quarter.

Also from my understanding, the student had to be confronted about the empty tank. We have a compressor at the pool in our "dive locker" (more of a dive room). It was there that the empty tank was discovered and the entire class was asked about the situation after the fact.

I also want to state that the instructor felt like this particular student didn't pay much attention during pool sessions or lectures. That he was always spacing off or goofing around instead of listening when the instructor was going over procedures. I don't have first hand experience to this because I was only able to TA that 1 session for that quarter.

Knowing the instructor really well, I know he wouldn't ever yell at anyone. We usually get really tight knit by the end of our 10 week course; instructor, students and all

 

[Capt.Ed]

I'd seriously question the judgement of an instructor that took students in 25kt winds and 6ft seas for their first ever sea dive. Especially if you know you have a big or nervous group.

You know the drill; they did thier pool work with someone else, three weeks later (due to crappy weather) they checked the weather forecast on a Wendesday, set up the trip, and then drove 200 miles for the certification dives for the weekend. Weather guessers got it wrong. Once that deposit is down on the dive boat you've got two choice...suck it up or don't go (and lose your deposit). I passed and I thought I did quite well, as a matter of fact. Nobody got hurt. All of them have since certified.