Lost Buddy Marker

[piikki]

If I have to use my safety reel to find the line because I'm lost off of it with no lights, I'm not going to take a chance on finding a broken line, getting tangled in main line and having to cut myself free since I dont have a buddy, or anything else.

As such, I'm not going to leave my safety spool behind, tied off to the mainline at the point that I found it. So, unless I'm carrying a second safety spool, or a jump/gap reel, or something else that I can use, I'm going to cut it free from the mainline once I've secured it to my marker. I may only have 50' left on it after this, but 50' is better than nothing. Under the circumstances outlined of this dive so far, I wouldnt take the chance of leaving it.

Ok thanks for the explanation. Again a thing that was taught somewhat different. I totally understand if it's your last remaining reel. I was taught to always carry two safeties, and in case of looking for the (main) line separated from buddy, to leave my safety in place, so buddy who might be looking too would have the added benefit of maybe hitting onto my line in addition to the (main) line.

It was mentioned that in certain conditions entanglement hazard needs to be taken into account but that in most cases the added benefit of another line to snag would outweigh it. Also, our instructor was not hot on slinging cutters nearby lines when stressed.

 

[Cave Diver]

Also, our instructor was not hot on slinging cutters nearby lines when stressed.

Neither was mine, but I figure with the scenario I was given that enough other stuff had gone wrong, I wasn't going to assume I had backup reels as well.

Ok, out to dinner. I'll see what twists and turns happen when I get back.

 

[GDI]

Why should the answer to this question be so cryptic or a secret?

I would like to hear it even if it is that you think other people are teaching new cave divers crap.

There is nothing cryptic about my statement and I don't think people new cave divers are learning crap. Rjack has already mentioned consistency of line navigation is important and It IS. P1 to Olsen is an example, a good example but it is only one cave system

We do not always dive in systems that are so easily passable and open at the exits and we do not all dive back mount

Think about a system to which you have not "PROVEN" the exits.

Is my thinking out of the context of this lost buddy marking method discussion?

My question posted at #132 page 14 of this thread is an attempt to have divers think outside the box in the context of this thread,yes in a unlikely unrealistic set of scenarios, Does this get divers to think outside the box? Don't know? Maybe I'm missing the point of this discussion?

 

[piikki]

I place a cookie on the P1 side of the arrow marking my exit path.

I pull my safety spool as I return back to the mainline. I leave both the arrow and the cookie.

I think in the scenario I described there would be like 2 more arrows pointing to Olsen instead of P1 before the double arrows. You would put your cookie down on every arrow until the arrows start agreeing with your exit, right? After all you do not know if your buddy will pop up to the line with 200PSI left at your light or at the first arrow pointing toward Olsen.

 

[fgray1]

nevermind not worth it

 

[ucfdiver]

Here is my humble opinion. I would never leave a piece of my equipment that may be needed for me to exit the cave safely. Be it a reel or light. If some of you guy feel you need to leave a beacon then buy on of those chemical sticks and carry it with you on your dive. But give up a light. Not me. Your first responsibility is to yourself and your family. As should be your buddies. Follow your 5 Ps (proper planning prevents poor performance)
and you will be fine. As stated before Diving is a solo sport done in groups. Far to often 2 divers die instead of one because they fail to use common sense. I've dove with people that had all three lights fail. I myself have had 2 fail.(that's why I carry 3 backup lights) So if I left one on the line I got nothing left.

A proper backup light should have between 5 and 8 hours on the battery/bulb combo. A primary should have been burn tested and proven reliable for the duration of your planned dive plus a safety margin on top of that as well. A proper team should have the awareness to never get separated. In order to need that 3rd backup light, you would have to of had a team failure, primary failure, and backup failure, which SHOULD BE a statistical impossibility if you planned your dive correctly.

If your backup lights last 5 hours, you would have to be over 18,000ft back in Ginnie to need the 3rd one, assuming your primary died at max penetration. If you start planning for 3 failures, your biggest issue becomes that you need to dive with 3 gas sources all capable of getting you out of the cave, IE 3 bottles of sidemount, or doubles with a slung LP108/HP130. If you're not planning for 3 failures on gas, why would you plan for 3 failures on a light?

Furthermore, if you're really thinking that it's realisitic to lose a primary AND backup light, shouldn't you bring an extra one instead of cutting it so close?

Finally-- I'm sorry, cave diving is not a solo sport. It's a team effort. You shouldn't take what you don't need, including a buddy. If a buddy is just someone to split gas with, perhaps you should do 2 solo dives and not add additional task loading by having to keep up with each other. I've been in the cave with solo divers who kept me around for company, it's not pleasurable, and it's down right dangerous.

 

[GDI]

If I have to use my safety reel to find the line because I'm lost off of it with no lights, I'm not going to take a chance on finding a broken line, getting tangled in main line and having to cut myself free since I dont have a buddy, or anything else.

As such, I'm not going to leave my safety spool behind, tied off to the mainline at the point that I found it. So, unless I'm carrying a second safety spool, or a jump/gap reel, or something else that I can use, I'm going to cut it free from the mainline once I've secured it to my marker. I may only have 50' left on it after this, but 50' is better than nothing. Under the circumstances outlined of this dive so far, I wouldnt take the chance of leaving it.

In your explanation You could carry a second safety reel ( aka spool) Lesson learned from fatality at Eagles Nest - accident analysis study

Based on your answer Have you considered this approach instead?. (And in my question there are three scenarios not just one -a = dark, b=siltout, and c= minimal light conditions but lets just deal with it the way you answered it as I perceived it)

You find the line using your safety reel and you secure it to the found line. Now you anchor the two lines together, Then using your same reel, from the anchor point you begin searching for the lost buddy. ...

Conservation of effort and time. when you decide to exit especially if not having found your buddy then you rewind you reel to the anchor point a known reference and set to exit the system, If you feel the need to cut line/reel free then I could understand that. I always carry a redundant safety spool - due to the Eagles Nest fatality so no need to cut. i can leave the reel and come back later. Scissors and lines don't mix well, last choice option.

 

[GDI]

Finally-- I'm sorry, cave diving is not a solo sport. It's a team effort. ... I've been in the cave with solo divers who kept me around for company, it's not pleasurable, and it's down right dangerous.

... Your first responsibility is to yourself and your family. As should be your buddies. ... As stated before Diving is a solo sport done in groups.

SOLO Diving is a different topic especially in caves. The saying that you both are commenting on is :

Diving is a solo responsibility conducted as a social activity what it means is

You are responsible for yourself, your equipment, your environment and your team.

I'll start a different thread for this discussion so we can keep this one somewhat on track. I'll put it in the solo diving section

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/so...ty-conducted-social-activity.html#post4741627

 

[fgray1]

nevermind

 

[ucfdiver]

SOLO Diving is a different topic especially in caves. The saying that you both are commenting on is :

Diving is a solo responsibility conducted as a social activity what it means is

You are responsible for yourself, your equipment, your environment and your team.

I'll start a different thread for this discussion so we can keep this one somewhat on track. I'll put it in the solo diving section

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/so...ty-conducted-social-activity.html#post4741627

Rick, could you move that thread to the cave diving section (I think you're a mod?)?

I'm not allowed to post in that forum per site rules in the sticky-

This is a no-troll zone! The discussion is not to be centered around whether to do a solo dive, but in the techniques and strategies involved. Do not participate if you have already decided that solo diving is not for you! Thanks in advance.

Not to mention, I think it would be just as one sided of a debate if you had posted it in the DIR section...you and I both know that if any of us anti solo people posted, we'd get ganged up on, and it's a hidden forum, so we have no like minded divers to come to our rescue.