Why can't you make a living as an Instructor?

[PvtStash]

A quality regulator costs around $600. A quality BCD also costs around $500. Even just a quality set of mask, snorkel and fins costs around $200, a dive trip to the Bahamas for a week costs thousands of dollars. So you think that quality training from a seasoned and experienced professional instructor, that will train you with skills and knowledge that will outlast your gear by decades; should cost next to nothing?
.

My first reg was the Titan LX Supreme... a quality reg that I've done Hundreds of dives in with temps ranging from 40 - upper 70's, and it was less than $300... and I bought it from my LDS...

Also, I didnt need to learn from (or pay for) scuba instruction from Jacques Cousteau himself... in fact I'd combed extensively through Dennis Gravers book and old agency manuals/DVDs I got off the internet and basically went in there (to my LDS) looking for a rubber stamp on certification... no exhorbitantly expensive instruction from "a seasoned and experienced professional instructor" needed or required... again, its not rocket science...

And yes, that Bahamas trip was expensive and thus I didnt go... Until I had saved up for 3 yrs after certification... and even then it was Less than $1000...

If a quality scuba certification course costing $600 would have ‘priced you out of the sport’, then how did you have an expectation to afford thousands of dollars for quality equipment and many more thousands in addition to take just one trip to a decent location to dive? .

I Didnt have that expectation... , but the affordable price of OW Basic got me in the door.

If you’re not willing to pay a dive professional what they’re worth for quality training to gain knowledge and skills that will keep you alive while conducting a high-risk activity, or to learn to survive in the event of some unexpected adverse situation while in an underwater environment that can drown you in a matter of seconds; then I suggest you explore golf, or tennis, and see what a golf-pro or tennis-pro is paid. It’s an obscenity, that REAL instructors have been getting screwed so badly for so many years as compared to other recreational sports. “Pricing people” who have your attitude “out of the sport”, is exactly what SHOULD happen.

Who gets to decide who the "REAL instructors" are? who gets to decide what their training is worth ?

(hint: its not you)

 

[znolan]

I agree with "find a job you love and you will never work another day in your life" however, if you can only see the industry as an instructor or DM/Dive Con (etc) then your dream job may have a hitch in it's get-a-long. There are many other diving related jobs that can be incorporated along with your pro credentials. Sales, equipment, boating and live aboards, travel, you get the point. There are also management and instructor trainer positions that will boost your income to a level that may be appropriate for your needs. It has been my experience that if you wish to be in this industry, flexibility and an open mind will take you a long way. make it a great day!

 

[String]

In fact; a reason I quit teaching PADI courses more than 10 years ago, was that PADI's course standards must be adhered to rigidly with no flexibility; and their standards at any given level are NOT to be exceeded.

There is absolutely nothing in PADI that prevents you from teaching above the standards.

 

[jar546]

Interesting thread, especially since it was resurrected after sitting idle for over a year. I love the viewpoints from all sides, some more passionate than others. There is not one single industry that is perfect and the scuba industry is no exception. A few of my opinionated points:

* This thread was started and continues in a recession where business is down for just about everything. This already gives it a negative tone.

* Existing instructors are doing nothing more than trying to protect their turf and realize that more instructors = more competition = less market share = less money in their pocket.

* Survival in an economy like this is marketing and business savvy vs the same old method of existing and thinking people are going to come to you. You can be a great instructor, have tons of experience, a great diver but completely suck at business.

* Many people were able to ride the wave to get into the industry and now are struggling to keep their head above water as the wave has been reduced in size during the recession.

* I don't care if you have 1,000,000 dives and have been an instructor for 60 years. Business is business and you have to learn how to capitalize on your experience or someone else will outsmart you with their marketing and take your market share.

* There is always room for new instructors as others will fade away through the natural progression of any career.

* I see too many business sit back on their ass and think that business will still come to them as they watch the competition pass right by them. You have to move with the changes, adapt and alter the way you think to stay ahead. Just like the complaints from shops about Leisure Pro. I love the shops that still don't offer any online sales yet complain how online sales are hurting them. Again, good instructor does not = good business person.

* There is an extremely important aspect of this business that has to do with safety and every agency thinks they are the best and has the best program and the safest program. The agency is only as good as the instructor that is certifying the new diver. The instructor is not only only as good as the training he/she received but also only as good as their own ethics. We all know some cut corners and some do not. Bottom line is that marketing is what drives people and those prospective clients will make their own decisions based on their personal criteria of importance. You can argue all day long about who is better but it is all OPINION.

* Centers that are smart enough to train instructors and get qualified to do so are going to have one more vehicle to provide income than those that sit back and wait for a couple to walk through the door and ask to be certified.

* As far as pricing is concerned. The OW needs to be lower to get the people in the door. Supply and demand will regulate that and if you overprice yourself at the door, people will never come in. You have no control over what another shop wants to charge and if their charges are keeping them busy and paying the bills, don't sit back and complain while you are overpriced and sitting back on your ass. If you can charge more then more power to you but new blood is always needed to drive any industry and new divers need good deals to entice them. Those with lower prices to get people in the door are helping the industry more than you are with your overpricing.

Just my humble opinions of course.

 

[janchi]

Many valuable opinions and recommendations in this post. I can see myself that this industry won't make most of us Wealthy, but it still make us happy to do it. In most cases...

I am just wondering, why do they in Asia - Thailand, Malaysia, etc charging for Dive Master Internship? I can see prices like 1200 USD to up to 5000 USD. OK with free accommodation and some basic entry level Suunto computer. But accommodation in let's say Thailand is like 200USD per month.
As far as I know internship is usually unpaid position providing training and experience to adepts in exchange of free labor. So why I can't find any Dive Center website in this countries where they won't charge for internship. I know that in Malta or Cyprus I will be able to find PADI dive center that will offer me Dive Master course for free with necessary free dives for exchange of me being working for them for couple months.

Is it just because the demand and stupidity of most of the PADI Dive master wannabe? Or just simply because the demand is so high that Dive centers can simply charge for free labor? Or I just need to go there personally and keep asking around?

 

[whateverfun2]

I am new to the board but I read 15 of the 17 pages I have some questions that didn't quite get answered.

But first let me give you back story about my life so they can be answered accurate. I have made 12.00 to 15.00 an hour working as a commercial pressure washer in the united states. I have traveled while not working is my mode of operation is save money usually about 5,000 to 6,000 and then go traveling for months or years depending. I have done a 17,000 mile motorcycle ride across the united states that took me a year to do I spent 6,200 dollars during that year..living out of a bag on the back of the my motorcycle..I went to south America on 4,200.00 and lived for 6 months.

I have come back and bought a 26ft sailboat, I would like to learn to become a scuba instructor so I can eventually do scuba charters off my sailboat. I have heard on the forum here that it is hard work, I did clean out garbage corals with human waste for a living(why I want to become dive instructor haha) so, I am not adverse to hard and dirty work.

1)my needs: To make 10,000 to 15,000 a year to live on scuba diving is this amount of money unrealistic in places like Thailand and Utlia?

2) Can I sail to different countries and work at different dive shops? Basically how hard is it to get to a new place and get a job even if it is for 50 dollars a day?

3)Can you work for a dive shop and on the side take people out on my sailboat with out getting fired from the dive shop?

4)What classes or skills could I take to make my wage higher?

5)What places pay that best that aren't western countries, Utila vs Thailand for example?

To people say that you can't live on a small wage is not ture...I personally lived for 3 years on 16,000 dollars and it was the best time of my life..you make it work if you really want it ...my addiction is travel...and jobs that include you leaving for long periods of time is very few and far between...off the top of my head its scuba,sailing, and teaching English as a foreign language...

As fare as saving for retirement you have to think of your goals my goal for a monthly income is about 1,000 a month I need 220,000 dollars to achieve that (if you have a 9% compounding interest rate on your investments, which Brazil is paying on there bonds right now)..where could you live you ask for that much....Colombia, I can get a nice 1500 ft condo 3 blocks from the beach for 30,000 dollars. Will I have a nice car...No but a taxi cost me 5.00 to rent for the hour and buses anywhere that is long distance. Will I have a nice house? Yes...Will i have a wife..Yes...kids...maybe but...America and the western world isn't the best place in the world, did you know the USA is ranked 37th as for as medical care goes and Colombia is ranked 22..not to a night in the hospital isn't 500.00 a night but 30.00 i know I was there haha. I just know what I want in life and I am sorry I don't want to clean human waste for a living anymore when I can make the same or a little less being a scuba instructor. FYI the most I ever made doing that job was 18,000 in a year because in the winter you can't spray water around because it makes ice and you have liability issues so its quite seasonal.

Thanks for reading..Aaron

 

[Habraken]

I ectually have the same question. But for me, i'm a 29 year old guy, am sterilized (so never will get children) and am almost sure about never want to get married. The future will be fine, there i only need to support myself and believe me there will be money available when i get older. I have owned an B&B in Holland and made good money, but all the money in the world won't make me happy. If i enjoy diving and don't care about living in a crappy room with only cold water, is a carreer in diving still a bad idea? I absolutely agree with the question why all these negative reactions on the forum. I'm working now for 2 years in a kitchen in spain 7 days a week 10 hours a day for money most people won't call 'a living' while sleeping in a shared flat with 5 others, but i'm most certainly are happier than when i was making 4000 euro a month in amsterdam without hardly working at all. My question is, is it really hard to find something in diving, or is it just hard to support a family or whatever while doing it. I mean, if you are fine with not making money at all, is it still hard to get something to do!?!? Thank you.

 

[beautybelow]

First, I will admit I skipped 10 pages of this thread, so sorry if this is a repeat. I may or may not have time to go back through it.

If you want to work in the dive industry your'e best off having at least OWSI on your resume obviously.

If you have that and a little more instructor rating, plus life skills learned in any manner (especially those related to the dive industry) then I believe there are a lot of good jobs out there right now.

You have to be flexible to get them though also, I believe right now.

If you speak more than one language, depending on what it/they are, you could have a choice of about 5 different resorts to work at during the busy season in the Maldives alone. And make a decent living being a dive instructor. If you speak Chinese or Japanese you write your own contract I bet.

If you are rated at some level with 2 or more agencies, hold some sort of captain's license, engineering cert or are just good at working on things you have a good chance at management level work in most parts of the world. Again, flexibility in life options and skills.

I have been lucky personally, but have seen A LOT of young people make enough money being instructors to have fun and travel the world. Literally.



I don't think those who really want to do it spend much time discussing it on scubaboard, rather they go out and do it and talk about it later. Just my opinion.

 

[beautybelow]

I am staring at a dozen computer screens right now, forced to make a living at trading because there is a glut of hopefuls for my chosen career, swimsuit model photography. I am a pretty good photographer and willing to work for practically nothing because I enjoy photographing semi-nude female models so much. It's much more pleasant than analyzing numbers and assessing risk. Alas, there is little demand for swimsuit model photographers, and dozens of people more skilled than I am are waiting to fill any niches that arise.

Training to become a trader entailed tedious courses in mathematics and economics that a lot of people preferred not to take or were not very good at. Training to become a swimsuit model photographer entails taking a lot of pictures--something many people happily do as a hobby. Go figure.

I, too, have $20,000 worth of studio equipment collecting dust right now unless I drag out a couple of lights and umbrellas to take a picture of my bouncing baby boy or someone else in the family. I would prefer to do children (obviously easier living in a Muslim country) but that market is filled with kids who use entry level dslrs and a box size room in their parents house with two lights and a portable backdrop. 25 bucks a session. Not my thing. Anyway...high jack over.

 

[k ellis]

Well part of the problem with instructing is that too many people want to make it a gold mine. That being said there is competition out there at almost any place you go and those instructors to want to make a living so they too have to compete with each other for the relatively small amount of potential divers.

One divemaster I recall saying along time ago that the profitability is driven down because of people doing it because they love the sport or because they are being a good friend. This in reality only accounts for a small percentage.

its really all about supply and demand and when on average say 500 people want to get certified (Just an example) and 20 shops are trying to survive then its only natural that each shop would drop prices and try everything they can to get as many of those 500 students as possible. Then you break it down further and say the shops each have 5 instructors. Now 100 instructors are competeing to get as many of the 500 students as possible. This is the biggest driving reason behind why instructors dont make much money.

In my opinion though diving should be affordable unlike popular belief. So many people believe their time is valuable (which it is) but priced too high we will only succeed in suffocating our sport into the history books because people will simply opt for other hobbies and enjoyments.