Two fatalities in Monterey

[Blue Sparkle]

I notice that someone local to the scene (in a different thread about this, IIRC) mentioned that they were both found unconscious, on the bottom, with weights on and their regs out of their mouths. That person went on to say that they were found by others in their dive group, who brought them to the surface just as the CG arrived. It was not mentioned whether or not they were OOA.

Both with regs out of mouth -- if that's a fact....I wonder why? (I'm sure there are many possibilities; it's just one thing that made think "huh?") (Or do people's regs usually fall out of their mouths when they go unconscious?)

(That person also said their group looked to have a good ratio of DM's/adults with them. From yet another thread, I think an instructor in their home town mentioned they were OW certified, although maybe newish divers. I hope I have that right.... I think there are three threads about this now...)

 

[aquaregia]

Very disturbing news. Double fatalities are rare in the accident research I have done. I'd like to know what the certification levels were of the divers. Does anyone know what the weather and sea conditions were like at the time? When I was in Monterey the dive conditions were such that most Fla Keys boats would not have went out. I had no issues but the surge was pretty good and we had one diver who was not used to the temps and conditions require assistance after getting tangled up in some kelp. My first Pacific dive was also my first ocean rescue assist.

The news link is reporting that 19 people were in the water from that boat? Wow.

Most of my diving has been in Monterey, and I was surprised when a boat in the Keys didn't go out in 3' seas. Obviously I didn't have any particular opinion on the matter--he was the expert. I've been on a boat with 15-20 divers here as well as in the Keys. I have participated in several rescues locally, probably one incident (of varying magnitudes) every 3-6 months. I found diving in the Keys much more relaxing.

 

[diversteve]

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[Ken Kurtis]

Both with regs out of mouth -- if that's a fact....I wonder why? (I'm sure there are many possibilities; it's just one thing that made think "huh?") (Or do people's regs usually fall out of their mouths when they go unconscious?)

It's not uncommon to find unconscious divers with regs out of mouth. The jaw relaxes, maybe they get rolled around a bit, and the reg falls out. Top of my head for the fatalities I've done reports on, I can't think of an instance where the reg was found IN the mouth of the diver. So not uncommon at all.

Now it could also be that they were out of air, spit out the reg as they headed for the surface, didn't make it, and fell back down. But the odds of that happening to BOTH divers independently and then landing together would seem to be remote.

AnotheR possibility (PLEASE NOTE THIS IS ALL SPECULATION AS TO POSSIBILITIES - I DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC INFO ON THE DETAILS) is that one diver got in trOuble, the other diver tried to assist, and then both ended up dying. As Jim Lapenta mentioned in a previous post, double-fatalities are rare. The ones I've heard of involve diver A in a life-threatening situation, diver B trying to help, and neither makes it.

Until some more specific details are known (which could be quite a while), you can't really draw any valid conclusions.

- Ken

 

[seven_dollars]

Very disturbing news. Double fatalities are rare in the accident research I have done. I'd like to know what the certification levels were of the divers. Does anyone know what the weather and sea conditions were like at the time? When I was in Monterey the dive conditions were such that most Fla Keys boats would not have went out. I had no issues but the surge was pretty good and we had one diver who was not used to the temps and conditions require assistance after getting tangled up in some kelp. My first Pacific dive was also my first ocean rescue assist.

The news link is reporting that 19 people were in the water from that boat? Wow.

Another charter was out that morning further out in the bay and reported vis of 5-10 ft with a good amount of surge. These are poor but not unusual conditions for monterey and are not good conditions to turn young inexperienced divers loose to dive on their own without a more experienced diver. Entanglement is not a likely scenario since the kelp is still thinned out from the winter and can easily be broken by hand by a buddy or a calm diver. Lastly, group charters of that size are not unusual here but i would like to know how they were supervising the dives if they were minors and presumably unfamiliar with our waters. My heart and prayers go out for the families and fellow students of the two.

 

[DandyDon]

In my few trips to dive in Calf waters, it's seemed that boats there are generally quite different than Florida Keys boats - almost liveaboards. Comparing diving between the two locations is obtuse I think. Calf diving is expected to be more challenging so you prepare for it. How well this group prepared I wouldn't know, but that's the general approach.

It's certainly sad for the two young boys to be lost like this, or on a hiway, or any other ways too many kids die but risks are inherent. I frequently suggest new divers hire a private DM for the first day or two of ocean diving, or go to Key Largo and stick to the newbie boats, but many do not.

 

[Jarred Fedor]

Lastly, group charters of that size are not unusual here but i would like to know how they were supervising the dives if they were minors and presumably unfamiliar with our waters. My heart and prayers go out for the families and fellow students of the two.

This is taken from Monterey Express Dive's webpage under FAQ. I also heard from a few people who were out on a charter doing research re-certs that visibility was poor and the surge was rather annoying to run transects in. I feel overly sad for these divers and what their family and friends are going through. Can't help but to wonder what their level of training was and what could have happened within such a shallow dept of hidden beach. One article states they were in 40-80 fsw which is missleading since most research dives have a 60fsw max depth and hidden beach is a 20-40 foot depth. Questions question questions : (

"Does your Dive Master dive with the divers?

No!
The Dive Master on most California charter boats is primarily the safety swimmer. His/her duties also include briefing the dive procedures and emergencies, keeping track of divers as they enter and exit the vessel, and checking equipment safety and function before the divers enter the water. The DM also enters the water to assist divers who are having difficulty or find themselves unable to return to the vessel due to fatigue or other emergency situations.
A tour guide can also be made available at an additional charge if you make prior arrangement with Monterey Express, Inc. "

 

[Blue Sparkle]

It's not uncommon to find unconscious divers with regs out of mouth. The jaw relaxes, maybe they get rolled around a bit, and the reg falls out. Top of my head for the fatalities I've done reports on, I can't think of an instance where the reg was found IN the mouth of the diver. So not uncommon at all.

Thank you, Ken. It was mentioned by someone as a specific, and although that didn't mean it was anything unusual of course, I wasn't sure. There was another recent diver fatality where IIRC it was mentioned the reg was in, so that probably contributed to my wondering aloud.

I appreciate your experienced background info.

Blue Sparkle

 

[Farty]

This is really tragic accident. Based on these bits and pieces, it seems although they were high school students, this class was not high school organized trip, also it looks like they were OW certified.

http://www.montereyherald.com/ci_17813732?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1

Two Carson High School Students Drown in Scuba Diving Accident Saturday - My News 4 - KRNV, Reno, NV

2 Nevada H.S. students die in diving accident

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headline...l_Students_Drown_on_SCUBA_Trip_119549939.html

http://www.silive.com/newsflash/ind...ie-in-diving/f7538a16d98b4fbb9ea917443bde17a9


My consonances to all involved, friends and family.


Probably a bit strange comment, but was I the only person who saw dolphins during the accident? I really don't want to connect the dots, but it was a bit unusual.

 

[mdb]

It seems that there was good adult supervision and prompt reaction by the crew of the Monterey Express- a well respected boat with very experienced crew.

There are lessons to be learned at the great expense of two young lives lost.