Does a DM have responsibility?

[Banyan]

I like this......he is a guide taking you through the jungle. If someone falls behind, surely he would not leave you.

The old divemaster who conducted free shore dives sponsored by my LDS made it very clear that new divers, or others who felt more comfortable with the guide, should stay close to him on the dive. Divers who wandered away were assumed to have made the decision that they did not need his assistance. He went at a very deliberate pace that allowed the more experienced divers to wander about with him as sort of the center of activity and with the brand new divers practically on top of him. I can almost hear him snort at the idea that his job was to keep track of up to 20 divers and then, if he couldn't see one, abandon 19 to search. At best a missing diver would be noticed when the guide counted at the exit.

I did over a hundred beach dives with this group and this system worked without major incident because it assumed that the divers could evaluate their own skill level and adjust their behavior accordingly. The idea that DMs should act as if divers are both not competent and are unable to recognize that they're not competent is both unreasonable and unworkable, in my opinion. Incompetent diving is an issue between the diver and the instructor that certified him or her, not the diver and whoever his or her guide is that day.

If you haven't already read it, I recommend the sticky post in the new divers section Who is responsible for what?

 

[DevonDiver]

Think of the DM as a guide, but not a guard. They don't physically hold your hand because first, it's *your* dive, and second, there are too many hands anyway.

That's a great analogy. Like a mountain or jungle guide, offering support and supervision, with rescue capability, but not there to do the walking for you...

 

[TSandM]

Really, what is there to diving? You plan a dive, you get in the water, you maintain buoyancy control, you monitor your gas, you swim the course you planned, and you end the dive. How much of that, realistically, could or should anybody else do for you?

A DM has, or should have, local knowledge. He knows the topography of the site, what is to be seen there, and what the challenges of the dive are, and that should be communicated in the pre-dive briefing. Each diver should reflect on the information given and decide whether the characteristics of the dive -- depth, time, current, temperature, visibility -- are within his personal capacity.

Once in the water, the DM is a piece of navigational information -- where he is going can be compared with the course discussed in the briefing, and should match. I think a lot of DMs will watch new divers closely, anticipating that these are the people most likely to make mistakes or get into trouble. But again, the DM CAN donate gas (but should never have to, because if he does, someone has failed in one of the most basic responsibilities of a diver), and MAY be able to correct someone's buoyancy error (but that can be difficult to do) but he can't do the dive for you . . . in fact, he can't do much of what you need to do to dive. He can't swim for you, he can't monitor your gas, he can't control your buoyancy. You have to do those things.

When people talk about DMs having "responsibility", I wince. Yes, there ARE responsibilities that they have -- a good dive briefing, good navigation, and emergency assistance if it is required. But they are not there to dive for you, and if you have this inchoate feeling that they are "responsible", I think you really need to ask yourself what you think they are responsible FOR.

 

[pafindr]

I like this......he is a guide taking you through the jungle. If someone falls behind, surely he would not leave you.

A DM wouldn't leave you behind intentionally but how long would it take for that DM, that has 10 divers in his group, to notice someone is missing? 1 min? 2min? 5min? By the time they notice that he's short a couple divers (assuming that the buddies stayed together) it'll take even more time to find you. He's going to have to search for you for a minute while keeping an eye on the rest of the divers then surface to tell the Capt. divers are missing, etc. At this point how long have you been out of air? or drifted away? or been entangled?
Add to that some DM's only have 50-100 dives under their belts, for the most part those DM's truly haven't had to deal with that type of situation so they may just be new to the problem. How perfectly did you perform a task the first time? Sure theory and the exercises performed in classes are great but when when it comes down to it how many have actually performed in a live situation under live stress.

Remember a DM, or any other title you want to add there, is human and they WILL make mistakes.

 

[TMHeimer]

As stated, the role the waiver plays depends on what happens. It seems to be just an automatic "step 1" the dive Op does to cover some situations (If there is no waiver signed and something happens I think the Op is in a much worse situation legally to begin with). It seems the responsibility of a DM to do this or that also depends on what happens. All stuff for the lawyers. I don't know what the legalities would be regarding "new" divers vs. well experienced ones--Is there a (legal) distinction made once you are certified? How many/what kind of dives makes one new or experienced?

 

[rob@diveinutila.com]

A discussion I hear regularly... I'm no lawyer but I think this is basically correct.... (especially in the US). Anyone can sue anyone at anytime for anything. Success depends on showing a duty of care, that the duty was not executed, that damages occurred and that this was the proximate cause of the damages.

Does a DM have duty of care? As a professional offering a service where peoples health & safety could potentially be at risk of course a DM has a duty of care. I don't think that's even called into question. I think the question to ask is where does that duty start and finish?

A certified diver must take responsibility for making the decision to dive, for planning specific dive profiles, for adapting dive plans mid-dive, for continuing to dive or abandoning their dive, etc (I'm sure we can add to this list easily). For example, I like divers to take responsibility for setting up their own equipment (I don't like the DM to set it up for divers).

However as a minimum the DM must include correct information in briefings, after evaluating conditions, that allows certified divers to make decisions with regard to their own experience and training. For example, If a DM neglects to mention difficult conditions in the briefing and these conditions subsequently result in an accident involving an inexperienced but certified diver I would guess this would be enough to question the DMs duty? Was this DM the "reasonable and prudent professional"? The inexperienced certified diver was not given enough information to be able to make a fully informed decision about diving or not.

I think a liability release can only cover risks over which the professional seeking to be released has no control. You can not release a duty of care in a professional engagement such as teaching scuba diving. I'm sure someone with more legal knowledge can say more (or if I am correct or not!).

 

[diver 85]

I like this......he is a guide taking you through the jungle. If someone falls behind, surely he would not leave you.

Just outta curiosity, have you ever been on a DMless dive??.....If not, you need to make some, I think a lot of your fears(?questions) would/could be resolved....

 

[fnfalman]

After you are DEAD.....you have no rights. New divers look at the DM for guidance.
BY THE BOOK.....BY THE BOOK... That is all I see on here. Where does common sense come into play? New divers need someone to look up to and get advice when needed. And if they have no one else with them that they know.....it should be the DM.

How do you know that the DM is a safe diver? Just because they're better trained and more experienced, it doesn't mean that they're safe divers. Or should I say, safe divers for you?

That's why YOU should be looking out for YOURSELF. YOU plan YOUR OWN DIVE, in limited capacity as your training allows you.

Taking another experienced diver's words for it is a good recipe for disaster.

Besides, what are the obligations for a Dive Master? It varies with the charter. Some dive masters are paid to lead divers in the water. Some are paid to control the roster and make surface rescues. For the ones that are paid to lead divers, what are their responsibilities? Are they suppose to monitor every divers' bottom times and depths? Are they suppose to monitor every divers' gas consumption?

One simply cannot make a sweeping statement that DMs are responsible for divers.

 

[MarcvsTheBard]

...When people talk about DMs having "responsibility", I wince. Yes, there ARE responsibilities that they have -- a good dive briefing, good navigation, and emergency assistance if it is required. But they are not there to dive for you, and if you have this inchoate feeling that they are "responsible", I think you really need to ask yourself what you think they are responsible FOR.

Thanks, TSandM! I now have much better understanding of what a DM does.

I am one grateful newbie!

 

[scarefaceDM]

good grief...why pick on the DM? Cause its easy to point a finger at a professional doing his/her job. Yes there are good and great DM's and also crappy ones...but there are good and great divers, and also crappy ones...goes both ways.

Follow the rules and you will be fine. Dive with in your training and capabilities and call the dive if you feel uncomfortable doing the proposed dive. But remember, if you are out of shape and suck a tank dry, whos fault is that - the DM's?.....

Stop blaming a DM for your incompetence. A DM will do what they can to provide a safe dive environment. Provide a proposed dive plan and provide any and all emergency assistance if needed, or if called upon. You are all certified divers, but many seem to forget that.

You as a diver are fully responsible for your actions and incompetence. If you cannot follow the basic of rules, I would suggest you either find a new hobby or get practicing in the pool and figure out why you were flopping around like a fish out of water.

I read many threads where the DM is the one to blame.....Blame yourselves. You caused the OOA not the DM, you caused a rapid ascent not the DM, you caused a buddy separation, not the DM....The DM gave you Air, the DM came to assist you when he was aware of it, the DM pulled your sorry arse out of the water.

Just dive your dives and dive your plan. Dive with in your training and comfort level and stop pointing a finger at someone else. Yes a DM has a professional responsibility to provide you with a safe dive environment, but he cannot control what you do in it.