Two fatalities in Monterey

[Chuck Tribolet]

How many incidents were there? 2 not too long ago and 1 or 2 today?

There were two incidents in Monterey on Saturday April 9, 2011:

The two teen-age fatalities that are the subject of this thread.
Their gear was recovered today.

A rescue at Monastery Beach. A couple divers got in when it
was relatively calm, and the swells came up while they were diving.
Some emergency service (I THINK Carmel Valley Fire, maybe
State Lifeguards, launched an inflatable at Whaler's Cove (about
a half-mile away and fairly sheltered and picked them up and
brought them back to Whalers.

Today, Sunday, April 17, 2011, there was certainly one incident
which is being discussed over in the NorCal section at
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/norcal/378758-diver-accident-today-monterey.html

In that thread, there is mention of the possibility of another
incident today.

Each of these incidents should have its own thread.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I realize that it's not the norm for California boats to send dive guides into the water with assigned groups, but these numbers seem to suggest that on this particular dive trip there were, exceptionally, guides in the water with groups.

For anyone familiar with guided group dives from Monterey boats, and especially if you've had experience with guided group dives from this particular boat, can you shed any light on whether briefings cover procedures relating to the separation of a buddy pair from the group, and if so, what procedures typically come into force?

Quero, first of all, thank you for posting that comment made to the article.

I realize that you weren't specifically saying one way or the other, but do we know if the DMs were part of the outing from home (as in, they came from Nevada), or hired from the Monterey Express or locally? I'm just thinking that if they came from Nevada with the group, then their pre-dive briefings may have been coordinated with, or in addition to, the typical ones from the Monterey boats. In other words, just knowing how they brief on those boats might not tell the whole story (although it would be welcome information, of course).

If these two kids were properly trained they would have made it to the surface.

So, people who are properly trained never have a fatal problem, condition, or accident when SCUBA diving? That's going to be a relief for many divers who no longer have anything to worry about.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So, people who are properly trained never have a fatal problem, condition, or accident when SCUBA diving? That's going to be a relief for many divers who no longer have anything to worry about.

No kidding ... I think some posters have left common sense behind.

I can think of several people who were "properly trained" and very experienced who have died on scuba ... some of them used to be members of ScubaBoard ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Really grasping here aren't we, lets use common sense now, recently trained and died.




Happy Diving

 

[ScubaSteve]

Really grasping here aren't we, lets use common sense now, recently trained and died.




Happy Diving

So by that logic the 16 year that gets his license, get hammered to celebrate and kills himself........it is his driving teacher's fault. Common sense? I think Bob has it and is using it better than many.

Even if you remove the alcohol from that equation there is still nothing that resembles common sense in it.

 

[Lobzilla]

So, people who are properly trained never have a fatal problem, condition, or accident when SCUBA diving? That's going to be a relief for many divers who no longer have anything to worry about.

No kidding ... I think some posters have left common sense behind.

I can think of several people who were "properly trained" and very experienced who have died on scuba ... some of them used to be members of ScubaBoard ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Ernest K. Gann covered this issue in his excellent book "Fate Is The Hunter". Often, it is just dumb luck that determines whether your number comes up or not.

However, throughout his stories of the early days of aviation you also see characters where everyone knew that they are going to 'pack it in' prematurely because of questionable skills or attitude.

A pilot's job is getting an airplane from A to B without a crash, a diver's job is to make it back to the surface without drowning, having an AGE, or DCS. The fact that we all die at some point is not a reason to accept carelessness, incapacity, or neglect in environments where we really do not belong as humans.

Where failure is not an option, you have to expect excellence from your students, from yourself, and from those who mentor and guide you. If you do that, you will still die but after a longer and richer life. Going the extra mile, whether it is as student or as instructor, always pays off when the stakes are high.

Hang in there, Bob (and others). Keep teaching what the environment requires and not what some silly agency recommends - regardless of the fact that we are all mortals.

 

[Quero]

Quero, first of all, thank you for posting that comment made to the article.

I realize that you weren't specifically saying one way or the other, but do we know if the DMs were part of the outing from home (as in, they came from Nevada), or hired from the Monterey Express or locally? I'm just thinking that if they came from Nevada with the group, then their pre-dive briefings may have been coordinated with, or in addition to, the typical ones from the Monterey boats. In other words, just knowing how they brief on those boats might not tell the whole story (although it would be welcome information, of course).

Blue Sparkle, no one is saying publicly what shop the dive staff represented, and as ItsBruce makes plain, for their own protection they must keep their counsel, so this information is unlikely to be formally released just yet.

I can tell you anecdotally, based on my own experience as a guest instructor and a guest dive guide on dozens of boats, that guest dive staff are required to abide by the safety policies that the boat operator stipulates. We may be able to add precautions and limits, but we may not relax policies. For example, some boats here oblige all divers to carry a signaling device and others don't; I am able to require that each diver I personally bring aboard any boat and lead as a guest dive guide have a signaling device in their possession, but I cannot overrule the signaling device requirement on a boat if that's the operator's policy. So if we know the boat operator's general policy for separation procedures, we have a starting point at least.

With that many staff in the water, I am inclined to believe that the aim was close supervision and prompt action, regardless of what shop the DMs were employed by. It would be reasonable to suppose, given this degree of supervision, that the boys' absence would have been quickly noted and that measures would have been taken without delay to try to locate them.

 

[mobeeno]

Their gear was recovered today by divers off the Silver Prince in
79 feet at Hopkins Deep (I heard the VHF traffic and talked to the
diver who recovered it). Do not read anything into the depth, my
understanding is that it had drifted a bit from the site of the
accident.

I did not know their gear was loss except a mask

 

[Jorbar1551]

Wrap your mind around this:

My dive instructor told me last night, that the divers were brought up with their gear, and the gear was put on board the Monterey Fire boat, who then after deciding that they didnt have enough room on board the boat for both a patient and 1-2 sets of gear, decided to tye the gear together and throw it off board, hoping someone else would recover it.

This is why it took a week for the gear to be recovered, and why it was so far away from the accident scene

 

[Quero]

Wrap your mind around this:

My dive instructor told me last night, that the divers were brought up with their gear, and the gear was put on board the Monterey Fire boat, who then after deciding that they didnt have enough room on board the boat for both a patient and 1-2 sets of gear, decided to tye the gear together and throw it off board, hoping someone else would recover it.

This is why it took a week for the gear to be recovered, and why it was so far away from the accident scene

I find this hard to credit, and frankly it makes your instructor (for one) appear to be a rumor monger. A first-person account posted in the comments section of a news source recounts:

When they were found, their tanks were first checked to see if indeed they did have air in them.
When both tanks were found to be empty, the straps holding them were cut to allow their bodies to be brought to the surface faster.
My child and I were on this trip, and my son is a fellow diver.