Cavern diver certification

[TSandM]

If the only thing you ever want to do is poke around in the cavern zone, a cavern certification from a recreational agency will do--the required skills are about the same as for the other agencies.

SNORT! Read the OP's first post and tell me he isn't just primed for a good dose of cave cocaine

 

[Dive-aholic]

I can't speak for all recreational agencies, but this is not true for PADI. To be a PADI cavern instructor, an instructor must have full cave certification from one of the recognized agencies, like NACD or NSS-CDS.

Standards used to require only an Intro Cave certification, and when the standards were changed PADI grandfathered cavern instructors in. I know of several PADI cavern instructors that haven't done a cave dive since getting their cavern instructor rating. Also, my point was not so much that as it was that all they have to show is 20 cave dives post training and they will get the rating. There is no internship or IE requirement.

If the only thing you ever want to do is poke around in the cavern zone, a cavern certification from a recreational agency will do--the required skills are about the same as for the other agencies. On the other hand, if you have any thoughts of following a path to full certification, I recommend going with one of the agencies that specializes in cave instruction.

While the skills may be the same, the instruction is not necessarily the same. I've seen some PADI cavern divers that really should take the cavern course over again.

 

[boulderjohn]

The recreational agencies only require proof of number of dives (only 20 dives required to become a cavern instructor).

I can't speak for all recreational agencies, but this is not true for PADI. To be a PADI cavern instructor, an instructor must have full cave certification from one of the recognized agencies, like NACD or NSS-CDS.

Standards used to require only an Intro Cave certification, and when the standards were changed PADI grandfathered cavern instructors in. I know of several PADI cavern instructors that haven't done a cave dive since getting their cavern instructor rating.

I'm confused. Are you saying that your statement that "The recreational agencies only require proof of number of dives (only 20 dives required to become a cavern instructor)" is accurate, even though it was never true, because there were other different requirements in the past that are not the same as in the present? Are you saying hat because some instructors have not done any cave diving "since getting their cavern instructor rating" that the requirements are different from what I stated?

Also, my point was not so much that as it was that all they have to show is 20 cave dives post training and they will get the rating. There is no internship or IE requirement.

The "20 dive only" requirement was not true the first time you wrote it. Repeating it does not make it true. If you say it again, it will still not be true.

While the skills may be the same, the instruction is not necessarily the same. I've seen some PADI cavern divers that really should take the cavern course over again.

So all recreational instructors are to be avoided because you have seen some who are deficient? You seem to have a remarkable skill for painting an entire group of people with a broad brush. Perhaps you will do the OP and others a service by telling them about the deficiencies you have noted in my skills so that they ill be sure to avoid me as an instructor.

 

[Phreatic Fanatic]

The "20 dive only" requirement was not true the first time you wrote it. Repeating it does not make it true. If you say it again, it will still not be true.

Actually, what Rob posted about at least 20 dives is true, as it pertains to PADI. Don't take my word for it, take a look at the PADI Specialty Course Instructor Application and on the second page, under Method 2 or 3 - Direct Application, you will find the Instructor / Applicant Acknowledgment, which states that the instructor has 'logged at least 20 dives in each of the specialty area(s) that I am applying for,...'


Cheers,

Carl

 

[Dive-aholic]

I'm confused. Are you saying that your statement that "The recreational agencies only require proof of number of dives (only 20 dives required to become a cavern instructor)" is accurate, even though it was never true, because there were other different requirements in the past that are not the same as in the present? Are you saying hat because some instructors have not done any cave diving "since getting their cavern instructor rating" that the requirements are different from what I stated?

What I'm saying is the prerequisites to become a PADI cavern instructor used to be intro cave diver with at least 20 intro cave dives and having already issued 25 certifications (OW, AOW, etc). The current prerequisites are full cave diver with at least 20 cave dives and having already issued 25 certifications.

The "20 dive only" requirement was not true the first time you wrote it. Repeating it does not make it true. If you say it again, it will still not be true.

Check your instructor manual.

So all recreational instructors are to be avoided because you have seen some who are deficient? You seem to have a remarkable skill for painting an entire group of people with a broad brush. Perhaps you will do the OP and others a service by telling them about the deficiencies you have noted in my skills so that they ill be sure to avoid me as an instructor.

I never said all. What I said was (bold added) -

I know of several PADI cavern instructors that haven't done a cave dive since getting their cavern instructor rating.

While the skills may be the same, the instruction is not necessarily the same. I've seen some PADI cavern divers that really should take the cavern course over again.

Let me ask you this, John. How many internships did you complete to become a cavern instructor? How long was your cavern instructor IE?

 

[K Mejean]

I'm not getting in the middle of this fight but I will say that NAUI requires a cavern instructor to be full cave certified with a certain number of dives and so an ITC / internship.

All this fighting back and forth should be done on another thread or via PM though. The OP just wanted some advice on getting started and you guys are going to run him off by having a pissing contest all over his thread.

 

[Phreatic Fanatic]

Welcome to a cave diving forum.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I'm not getting in the middle of this fight but I will say that NAUI requires a cavern instructor to be full cave certified with a certain number of dives and so an ITC / internship.

All this fighting back and forth should be done on another thread or via PM though. The OP just wanted some advice on getting started and you guys are going to run him off by having a pissing contest all over his thread.

I'm not fighting or in a pissing contest. I'm simply stating facts. These are things that prospective students need to know. There are many cave instructors that will not accept a PADI cavern certification as a prerequisite for intro cave. You mention NAUI, and NAUI is different. NAUI has a cave program and a technical program in place. I don't know what they're requirements are for becoming a cavern instructor, but I do know what the requirements are for PADI, SDI, and a few other recreational agencies.

 

[knowone]

padi? and other similar agencies, qualify only to permission to get on a boat
for insurance purposes standards, and then receiving everyone's permission
you may begin to learn something only of your own volition only if you wish

spending fifteen hundred or so clams to become neutral in robotic trim
is a lot of diving money, where you can if capable easily teach yourself

If you choose a permission for insurance purposes agency, for anything
more than them TAKING you to thirty metres on air, well then you may
as well spend your clams on a soviet rebreather teach yourself and dive
at night.

 

[boulderjohn]

Actually, what Rob posted about at least 20 dives is true, as it pertains to PADI. Don't take my word for it, take a look at the PADI Specialty Course Instructor Application and on the second page, under Method 2 or 3 - Direct Application, you will find the Instructor / Applicant Acknowledgment, which states that the instructor has 'logged at least 20 dives in each of the specialty area(s) that I am applying for,...'
l

And if you look a little lower, you will also see this:

B. Cavern Diver course – attach to this application documentation of certification as a full Cave Diver by a recognized Cave certification agency.

Perhaps we were talking past each other. What you said originally was that to be a cavern instructor, one only needed 20 cavern dives. I said that you also needed to be full cave certified.

I didn't say anything about internships, etc. I just said it is more than what you indicated in your post.