Incident at Dutch Springs 21 May

[lakeeriediver]

OpenmindOW,

The diver was in a suit marked with what the other demo suits had on them, I very sure it was a demo. I did not hear from anyone if he was drysuit certified and would not want to speculate. The instructor that head certified him made no mention of any training he had done other than certify him. The instructor was obviously upset but did mention to me that it was "a few years ago" when he did the certification.

The instructor did not mention what agency he was with or what agency he certified the diver with and I did not ask.

I am sorry I cant be of anymore help since something as tragic as this is a very teachable moment, however I don't want to speculate or add my opinions. I

 

[openmindOW]

I am sorry I cant be of anymore help since something as tragic as this is a very teachable moment, however I don't want to speculate or add my opinions. I

Understood, Lakeeriediver. Thank you for your valuable contributions to this Thread.

 

[fjpatrum]

Herbdb - This accident happened because the diver was inattentive, did not check his air. His father was also inattentive, did not monitor his son's air. .

I don't think we've established either of those statements as factual. If the diver was in a dry suit for the first time, it's just as plausible he had a runaway inflator hose on his suit, couldn't deal with it, and shot to the surface, then sank again after fixing the issue because he was over-weighted. At this point we don't know much more than his gauge read 0 psi and he might have had some sort of reaction that caused bleeding from nose ears and mouth. (Some conflicting statements with regard to that.) The rest is purely speculation as to what really happened.

 

[divenutny]

fjpatrum - I am basing my statement on what the father said after his son was moved to the ambulance and that the son's tank was empty. I agree that there is a lot of speculation, including your statement that he had a runaway inflator hose. I have my thoughts on what happened, I agree that we will never know for sure, including how long was the diver unconscious before his father got to the surface and called for help.

I feel this accident was avoidable. If his air was monitored, he should have reached the surface before his tank was empty. I could go down a list of other steps that might have changed the outcome, but the issue started with not monitoring his air. Solve the first issue, then the problem did not happen.

 

[fjpatrum]

fjpatrum - I am basing my statement on what the father said after his son was moved to the ambulance and that the son's tank was empty.

I feel this accident was avoidable. If his air was monitored, he should have reached the surface before his tank was empty. I could go down a list of other steps that might have changed the outcome, but the issue started with not monitoring his air. Solve the first issue, then the problem did not happen.

First, were you there? I haven't read anything in this thread about "what the father said" but I suppose it's possible I missed it.

Your assertion that the diver wasn't monitoring his air is what I take issue with... you have no idea whether that's true or not. I gave one of several plausible reasons for his tank to be empty that would not have been due to him not monitoring his air. You don't know what "the issue started with" and probably we will never know. Until we know facts, don't spout your opinion as fact, that's all I'm saying. It's part of the rules of this forum, label your speculation as speculation and site sources for "facts".

 

[openmindOW]

Divenutny, I understand your sentiments. I am in no way intending to be critical of you or your post, so please view my post here as friendly discussion.

I am reticent to accept something as a fact until the evidence is strong enough to safely label something as a fact.

fjpatrum - I am basing my statement on what the father said after his son was moved to the ambulance

What did the father allegedly say that might make us think that the boy ran out of air while diving?

If his air was monitored, he should have reached the surface before his tank was empty. I could go down a list of other steps that might have changed the outcome, but the issue started with not monitoring his air.

My friend, I respectfully question this in that I do not know with 100 percent certainty that this diver ran out of air while he was conscious. Do we know that the boy ran out of air while he was diving?

Is it possible that there was air in his cylinder when he submerged for the final time? Is it possible that the tank emptied after the final descent? Could a purge button on a 2nd stage have become depressed after that descent? Could a recovery diver have used the last bit fo air in the tank?

 

[divenutny]

Yes, I was there. I assisted with the team that attempted to revive the diver. I do not work for Dutch Springs, I happened to be in the area as this accident happened. After the diver was put in the ambulance, I heard the father explain what happened while others were asking questions and trying to console him. It would not be appropriate to share what I heard on a blog.

Can I say for certain that his tank was empty when he became unconscious? No I can't. I was not in the water or near the diver. You ask if the recovery diver could have emptied the tank? Yes, but one of the recovery divers stated he used his Low Pressure Hose to raise the diver, the divers tank had no air. Although I heard that statement when the BC/Reg was being passed to the police officer , I think someone also shared that in an earlier post.

Regardless how you feel of my opinion or statements, if someone monitored his tank pressure, this accident would be avoided. After that, better OOA skills might have changed the outcome. If you want to trash me for saying that, feel free. I have no intention of arguing these points or my assumptions.

My deepest condolences to his family and friends.

 

[lakeeriediver]

All,
I am not sure who said that a LP hose was used during the rescue but the dive the brought the boys rig in told the rescue team and the police that he orally inflated the BC. I am not sure that this has any bearing on this particular discussion but I did want to at least point out that the diver that surrendered the gear clear said he "orally inflated it on the surface". I hope this helps.

 

[openmindOW]

. . . After the diver was put in the ambulance, I heard the father explain what happened while others were asking questions and trying to console him. It would not be appropriate to share what I heard on a blog.

Can I say for certain that his tank was empty when he became unconscious? No I can't. I was not in the water or near the diver. You ask if the recovery diver could have emptied the tank? Yes, but one of the recovery divers stated he used his Low Pressure Hose to raise the diver, the divers tank had no air.

Thank you, DiveNUTny.

That helps. It sounds like one of the recovery divers concluded that the victim's tank had no air when the recovery diver first got to the victim underwater.

the father, of course, is a key witness. I feel for the man after this tragic loss.

You heard what the father said right after the incident. I understand why you woujld want to keep his remarks private.

It also sounds like you concluded that the boy went OOA and that contributed to the accident.

I certainly did not trash you in my; post. If you read my post, you'll see that I took effort to be respectful of you and to politely engage in questioning. Do you disagree?

 

[fjpatrum]

Yes, I was there. I assisted with the team that attempted to revive the diver. I do not work for Dutch Springs, I happened to be in the area as this accident happened. After the diver was put in the ambulance, I heard the father explain what happened while others were asking questions and trying to console him. It would not be appropriate to share what I heard on a blog.

Can I say for certain that his tank was empty when he became unconscious? No I can't. I was not in the water or near the diver. You ask if the recovery diver could have emptied the tank? Yes, but one of the recovery divers stated he used his Low Pressure Hose to raise the diver, the divers tank had no air. Although I heard that statement when the BC/Reg was being passed to the police officer , I think someone also shared that in an earlier post.

Regardless how you feel of my opinion or statements, if someone monitored his tank pressure, this accident would be avoided. After that, better OOA skills might have changed the outcome. If you want to trash me for saying that, feel free. I have no intention of arguing these points or my assumptions.

My deepest condolences to his family and friends.

Thank you for the clarification. I don't understand why you can't share information you heard first hand about "what happened" but that is your prerogative and I hope you feel differently once time has passed.

Just to be clear, my issue was with your assumptions spoken as "fact" without any siting of source. Had I known you were directly involved (did I miss you stating that before) my responses would have been phrased differently.

Thank you again, for responding in the first place at the incident, and for your clarification. As a SAR team member I know how difficult it can sometimes be to be involved in incidents like this.