Another Pony Bottle Question - Wreck diving?

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soltari675

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I was reading the pony bottle thread and also had a question, but didn't want to hijack the thread. It was going in different directions anyway.

My next specialty that I will be doing next month, and I am really really excited about, is wreck diving. My questions is do wreck divers often carry pony bottles? I can see the possible dangers of wreck diving, and wonder if investing in a pony is worth it. Thanks for your opinions.
 
I was reading the pony bottle thread and also had a question, but didn't want to hijack the thread. It was going in different directions anyway.

My next specialty that I will be doing next month, and I am really really excited about, is wreck diving. My questions is do wreck divers often carry pony bottles? I can see the possible dangers of wreck diving, and wonder if investing in a pony is worth it. Thanks for your opinions.

Well, there are different schools of tought on this as evidenced by numerous threads on SB. Through the 70s, 80s and into the early 90s I was diving wrecks in the Great Lakes. Myself and the guys I dove with would not have gone down on a deep wreck or down inside any wreck without our ponies (a 30 in my case) strapped between our double 80s. This was pretty much the standard. However, there were guys who dove with high capacity steels with no redundant air source which was not something I could get on board with.

By the early 90s I had seen a couple of guys using manifolded doubles for redundancy without a pony. I thought this was an interesting setup but I never tried it myself. I believe this setup would be considered the standard today. It is certainly seems to be the overwhelming choice of posters on SB.

It sounds like you are planning on some formal training before starting your wreck diving career. I commend you on that, but I warn you....it's very addictive! However, before you invest in a pony I would consult your instructor and discuss options appropriate for the type of diving you intend to do now and in the future.

jimthediver

Live to dive, Dive to live!
 
Thank you for the additional information. It was helpful. I plan to do my wreck training next month. In the Great Lakes actually. :) I am very excited and look forward to it. Your response gave me more information to use to ask my instructor questions.
 
"Wreck diving" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

If you are taking about swimming around the outside of an artificial reef (a deliberately sunk wreck) in warm, clear water you will not need much more than you probably already have. I would say a pony is not of much use to you and you need read no further.

If you are interested in more challenging wrecks, say ones that are in less pristine condition, and perhaps in deeper and colder water you will need quite a few things you don't yet have.

A pony bottle is sometimes used by divers on these types of wrecks. But in reality the best possible solution is proper buddy procedure.

If you are concerned about many of the issues a pony bottle is supposed to "solve" I would recommend just upping to a small pair of doubles. You will then have all the redundency you need and none of the issues that can be created by carrying a pony bottle.

Some will tell you this pony should be a 30 or 40 cft. tank and you should sling it as this will be useful practice in the event you go more into technical diving. It's not that that is bad advice but if you find yourself tending toward that I would get the doubles sooner rather than later so you can ditch the pony all that much faster.

Many of the same folks will say getting the 30 or 40 is best because it will not be money wasted in the event you turn it into a deco bottle. Which is true, but if you are concerned about the price of a single aluminum tank I can tell you that technical diving is not for you. (of course you weren't talking about technical diving so you could have skipped that last part too)
 
That was also very informative Dr Wu. I will say I do enjoy looking around the outside, but I am very interesting in seeing wrecks, inside and out and in less than ideal water conditions. It's the history behind the wrecks I am interested in. Seeing things that existed years ago and nobody but divers have seen since. That's cool to me. It looks like I might have to start researching doubles instead of pony bottles. It wasn't the cost of the bottle itself, it was more a question of if I was wasting money when I could be either fine with what I have or could get better. That's all.
 
That was also very informative Dr Wu. I will say I do enjoy looking around the outside, but I am very interesting in seeing wrecks, inside and out and in less than ideal water conditions. It's the history behind the wrecks I am interested in. Seeing things that existed years ago and nobody but divers have seen since. That's cool to me. It looks like I might have to start researching doubles instead of pony bottles. It wasn't the cost of the bottle itself, it was more a question of if I was wasting money when I could be either fine with what I have or could get better. That's all.

No need to rush into anything now.

The best answer to nearly any scuba related question is "just ask your instructor".

See how he/she wants you equipped for the course. Everything in due time.
 
Wreck diving can be split into 3 broad areas of technicality (Ref: Gary Gentile, 'The Advanced Wreck Diving Handbook'). These areas have very different demands, in respect of training, equipment and required experience. This is particularly true of the need for gas redundancy.

The typical 'Wreck Speciality' course for a recreational scuba diver falls somewhere between level 1 and 2 - depending upon the course emphasis and the experience of the instructor providing the training.

I'll cover these technical areas separately;

1) Non-penetration diving (i.e. swimming over/around the outside of the wreck). The gas management for these dives is no different than any other open-water recreational dive. No specialist skills or equipment is required. Access to the surface is not limited, so the full spectrum of Out-Of-Air (OOA) emergency protocols taught on recreational entry-level courses are applicable. These would include; Buddy Air Donation/Sharing (the primary OOA protocol), Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent (CESA) and Buoyant Emergency Ascent. Due to the availability of these emergency protocols, a redundant air source is not mandatory for non-penetration diving. A pony cylinder remains optional, based upon the individual divers' preferences, as it would for any recreational dive.

2) Limited penetration diving (i.e. within the "light zone"). This definition matches the recommended maximum limitations that apply to recreational-trained wreck divers (i.e. PADI Wreck Diver course). The diver should never be more than 40m linear (horizontal + vertical) distance from the surface, beyond the penetration of external ambient light or in an area the prevents side-by-side exit of two divers sharing air (no 'restrictions'). These recommended limitations, appropriate for the training given, theoretically enable the full spectrum of basic OOA protocols to remain available to the diver. However, the increased risk of disorientation, silting and entanglement within a wreck can lead to delays exiting a wreck or prevent air-sharing protocols being practicable. These factors make the use of a redundant air source much more advisable and most agencies recommend their use for these activities. The size/capacity of the redundant air source should reflect the overall gas management plan and, as a general rule of thumb, should be no less than 1/3rd of the divers' primary gas capacity. Divers should adopt the 'Rule of Thirds' for wreck penetration (1/3rd In - 1/3rd Out - 1/3rd Reserve) and retain the redundant air source as a further 1/3rd redundant reserve.

3) Full penetration diving (i.e. beyond the "light zone"). This definition exceeds the limits of recreational wreck diving and applies to technically qualified (Technical Wreck + Deco) divers who penetrate shipwrecks beyond the limits of ambient light penetration, through physical restrictions and beyond 40m linear distance to the surface. Due to much higher risk of disorientation, silt-out and entanglement, this level of diving demands much more redundancy and refined advanced wreck diving skills and protocols. It is anticipated that basic OOA protocols would not be sufficiently effective or reliable. Whilst Rule of Thirds gas management is adhered to, the duration (and often depth) of these dives demands a considerably larger gas capacity, which makes double cylinders a mandatory minimum. Air-sharing is still preserved as a contingency measure (requiring long-hose protocols for sharing through physical restrictions), but divers are also expected to apply gas management, via redundant air sources, to ensure that they can exit and surface the wreck without support.


Your individual decision to purchase/utilise a pony cylinder will really be dictated by the technicality of the wreck diving that you expect to be involved in. As a recreational diver, you are equipped with a spectrum of protocols that already prepare you for gas emergencies. If you adhere to the agency recommended limitations on wreck penetration (and support these with an accurate risk assessment before and during the penetration), then you should remain confident that the basic OOA protocols will remain practicable. However, wreck penetrations can sometimes go wrong and equipping yourself with a suitably sized redundant air source is a good 'insurance policy' against unanticipated problems.

The purchase of a pony cylinder should reflect a calculated requirement that supports your overall gas management plan as a contingency redundant reserve. If you don't have a gas management plan, then you can't intelligently calculate a redundant gas requirement.
 
I was reading the pony bottle thread and also had a question, but didn't want to hijack the thread. It was going in different directions anyway.

My next specialty that I will be doing next month, and I am really really excited about, is wreck diving. My questions is do wreck divers often carry pony bottles? I can see the possible dangers of wreck diving, and wonder if investing in a pony is worth it. Thanks for your opinions.

Wreck diving is fun but do not rush into penetration it requires a good set of techniques to be nailed down. Diving wrecks in great lakes is fun but is also dangerous. Check the death record on Arabia in Tobermory it could have been much better if people treat it seriously.

Unless you get into doubles and get proper training for managing the failures and doing penetration diving I would stay outside.

At this point if you ive singles i would recommend getting a pony like and get a 40 cuf one that you can reuse later.

People woilf tell you that ponys are not needed because you should have good buddy techniques but its not as simple as that.
1st the water at depth is mist of the time cold - around. 39-40f all year around so free flows are very common
2nd if you can on your buddys backup regulator chances are his might flow too quite soon
3rd forget about breathing from a free flowing stage at that temperature. The lips become numb quite soon an your teath will be covered in ice :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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