When should a shop request your C-Card?

[randykiw]

Personally I don't see the need for them to ask for a c card for any purchase. I have bought 3 motorcycles at different shops and never asked if I had a motorcycle license. Matter of fact on my first purchase I did not even have a permit. I could just as easily kill myself on a bike as scuba diving. It’s called personal responsibility. Plus when has anyone ever been asked for a c-card for an internet purchase.

 

[fnfalman]

If there are no laws forbidding the sales of gears and fill of air, then what's the problem?

Self-Policing doesn't equate to Regulation.

As far as law suits go, everybody can sue everybody, C-Card and whatnot.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If you want to rent dive gear from a shop, get on a dive boat, rent an air tank or fill one, or whatever, if the person who is facilitating your diving is smart, and safe, and frankly, if they care about our sport at all, they will ask that you show you are qualified to use what is being provided, including a boat ride to dive. Sadly, there are those who do not care, both vendors and consumers. Those are foolish people.

Just because someone is able to produce a c-card doesn't mean they are qualified to use what is being provided ... in fact, the more the dive industry "streamlines" the certification process, the less likely it is that the certification holder will be qualified ... and the c-card says nothing about a diver's ability to make good decisions, which is at least as important as any skills or knowledge they acquired in a class.

Let's be honest here ... requiring someone to produce a c-card has nothing to do with safety ... it has everything to do with CYA from a potential liability issue. And I wouldn't even have a problem with that were it not for the fact that it produces a growing dependency on dive shops and dive professionals to somehow be "responsible" for the safety of individual divers. Outside of a class, divers should be held responsible for their own safety, with the proviso that the dive professionals they are dealing with are not negligent with respect to the services and products they provide.

A c-card means that you have completed a class ... it says little about your actual qualifications ... much less your ability or willingness to conduct your dive responsibly. We see examples of that in the A&I forum every day.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[geogator]

After reading through the posts I have a thought I'd like to toss out for the discussion that I'm not sure anyone may have had. As everyone knows, homeland security events have changed the way business is done in this country in a variety of ways. Obviously, gun purchases are regulated (at least those that are made through shops) via background checks. (And no, I'm not a gun control fanatic but I agree with having background checks done.) The issuing of commercial drivers licenses are tightly controlled through the use of background checks, especially if driving hazardous or flammable materials. Heck, where I live they even check your drivers license to buy some cold medications now due to the possibility they may be used to manufacture meth & other nasty drugs. (I don't really agree with this one either & think it's a bit overboard but it is what it is.) Furthermore, we are all aware of the potential consequences if someone drops or damages a scuba cylinder, especially if it is full. If you need reminded, please check this week's St. Petersburg Times about the diver who was killed & the damage done when his tank exploded. With all of this said, what do you think about having a background check for the purchase or fill of tanks is someone does not have a valid c-card to show at the time of purchase & if you do have a c-card, making it part of process of getting one in the first place?

It's just something to mull over & I'm sorry if I started an off-thread topic on something that many people feel so passionate about on both sides of the fence.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

After reading through the posts I have a thought I'd like to toss out for the discussion that I'm not sure anyone may have had. As everyone knows, homeland security events have changed the way business is done in this country in a variety of ways. Obviously, gun purchases are regulated (at least those that are made through shops) via background checks. (And no, I'm not a gun control fanatic but I agree with having background checks done.) The issuing of commercial drivers licenses are tightly controlled through the use of background checks, especially if driving hazardous or flammable materials. Heck, where I live they even check your drivers license to buy some cold medications now due to the possibility they may be used to manufacture meth & other nasty drugs. (I don't really agree with this one either & think it's a bit overboard but it is what it is.) Furthermore, we are all aware of the potential consequences if someone drops or damages a scuba cylinder, especially if it is full. If you need reminded, please check this week's St. Petersburg Times about the diver who was killed & the damage done when his tank exploded. With all of this said, what do you think about having a background check for the purchase or fill of tanks is someone does not have a valid c-card to show at the time of purchase & if you do have a c-card, making it part of process of getting one in the first place?

It's just something to mull over & I'm sorry if I started an off-thread topic on something that many people feel so passionate about on both sides of the fence.

Background checks ...

What's next ... DoJ federal marshalls raiding dive shops suspected of selling illicit air?

Not just no ... HELL NO!

Last thing you want is some federal bureaucracy using the dive industry as an excuse to expand their authority ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[geogator]

Thank you very much for your reply Bob. Like I said earlier, I understand that govt regulation is a highly passionate topic & it's definitely NOT my intent to stir up emotions or pick sides, just get a simple "yes" or "no" to an innocent question & maybe even a "why" if anyone cares to elaborate on their answer (which is totally optional). I guess I'm just kind of surprised that with all of the intense level of scrutiny that's been given to such innocent things like as how much shampoo you can carry on a plane, there's never been an emphasis on something that can potentially make a much bigger & more lethal "boom" if used for other purposes.

PS: I also wanted to say that I really enjoy your advice & opinions you've given on all kinds of diving topics. Being a newbie diver, it's great to have access to the vast experience that you have & your willingness to share it to help us new folks out.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Keeping government regulation out of diving is something we should all be passionate about ... because it would inevitably put decisions about the amount and type of regulation into the hands of people who don't dive and don't understand diving. We've seen examples of how that works out in places like Laguna, CA ... where the City Council decided to make snorkels mandatory for all divers ...

Vigilance and responsibility are concepts I firmly support and believe in. Regulation won't make diving any safer ... just more expensive and more complicated.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Isn´t the common thing that you never have to show your card?? I mean. It´s not elegal to buy diving equipment without the C-card. You don´t have to have a driving license to buy a car either...Even paintball players using the scuba shops to refill their tanks. No one can forbid them to do that.
It´s another thing if a person would like to rent diving gear. Then the scuba shop can require that you have to show your card.

 

[fjpatrum]

After reading through the posts I have a thought I'd like to toss out for the discussion that I'm not sure anyone may have had. As everyone knows, homeland security events have changed the way business is done in this country in a variety of ways. Obviously, gun purchases are regulated (at least those that are made through shops) via background checks. (And no, I'm not a gun control fanatic but I agree with having background checks done.) The issuing of commercial drivers licenses are tightly controlled through the use of background checks, especially if driving hazardous or flammable materials. Heck, where I live they even check your drivers license to buy some cold medications now due to the possibility they may be used to manufacture meth & other nasty drugs. (I don't really agree with this one either & think it's a bit overboard but it is what it is.) Furthermore, we are all aware of the potential consequences if someone drops or damages a scuba cylinder, especially if it is full. If you need reminded, please check this week's St. Petersburg Times about the diver who was killed & the damage done when his tank exploded. With all of this said, what do you think about having a background check for the purchase or fill of tanks is someone does not have a valid c-card to show at the time of purchase & if you do have a c-card, making it part of process of getting one in the first place?

It's just something to mull over & I'm sorry if I started an off-thread topic on something that many people feel so passionate about on both sides of the fence.

I've gone through enough background checks thank you. I certainly don't need more just to have some fun.

As for the St Petersburg Times article, they don't even know what caused the explosion yet. We don't even know if the tank was air, nitrox, pure O2 or what, as far as I can tell. Let's not jump to the conclusion that tanks are exploding left and right when dropped (they aren't) from one incident that hasn't even been fully investigated.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've gone through enough background checks thank you. I certainly don't need more just to have some fun.

As for the St Petersburg Times article, they don't even know what caused the explosion yet. We don't even know if the tank was air, nitrox, pure O2 or what, as far as I can tell. Let's not jump to the conclusion that tanks are exploding left and right when dropped (they aren't) from one incident that hasn't even been fully investigated.

The more I read about the incident, the more I am suspecting that it's another case of an older 6351 type cylinder suffering from sustained load cracking.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)