Kansas man dies diving Bonne Terre

[Garth]

Hating drysuits with a passion and not knowing how to properly dive in a drysuit are two totally different things. The first one does not exist. The second one creates the idea of the first.
Have I confused anyone?

 

[Max Speed]

It sounds more and more things at this mine need to change before someone else gets hurt.

I think that's going a bit too far. Their safety record is quite good (not perfect) and their guides are well trained (at least the ones I know).

The water is not very cold.

A diver should not get in the water there or anywhere else if they are not prepared to assume responsibility for their own safety. (See FF1diver's post above.)

That said- I do not like to dive there for various policy/cultural/1st amendment/freedom of information reasons.

 

[TCDiver1]

I think that's going a bit too far. Their safety record is quite good (not perfect) and their guides are well trained (at least the ones I know).

I agree. Most things worth doing have a varying level of risk/reward and demonizing Bonne Terre over this one incident is going too far, especially before details become more clear.

I've been to the Mines several times and never saw any procedure being used that i would call dangerous nor did i feel more or less in danger than any other normal open water dive. It's been a few years since i've been there but unless something drastic has changed, they run a nice operation from what i've seen.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

A diver should not get in the water there or anywhere else if they are not prepared to assume responsibility for their own safety.

I agree with that. But on the other hand, it seems like their policies (as described in this thread, anyway) might muddy that somewhat. For example, if they actively discourage buddy teams but then are not able to provide equal "buddyness" (say if there are ten divers single-file and you are in the middle and not next to one of the guides -- now you are a sort-of "instant" solo/same "ocean" type diver).

Granted, at that point someone could/should cancel the dive if they are uncomfortable with it; but I can see where it may put people in an awkward position (say, if one of their usual ways to "assume responsibility for their own safety" is to dive with a buddy/team).

 

[bl6394]

That said- I do not like to dive there for various policy/cultural/1st amendment/freedom of information reasons.

LOL - I'll second that.

 

[Ayisha]

I was so uncomfortable I told my friend I didn't care what anyone else was doing, but her and I were buddying up. She had panicked and shot to the surface on the first dive, so before dive #2 we talked to a safety diver and he said he would stay right with us as well. But, we both ended up losing her on that dive.

Wait a minute, so she lost control of her buoyancy on the second dive too and had an uncontrolled ascent again? So what purpose does the initial weighting check and checkout dive serve if not to help a diver if they're in need of a little tweaking or to weed out those who are not ready?

 

[bl6394]

Wait a minute, so she lost control of her buoyancy on the second dive too and had an uncontrolled ascent again? So what purpose does the initial weighting check and checkout dive serve if not to help a diver if they're in need of a little tweaking or to weed out those who are not ready?

In my opinion (and not speaking for Bonne Terre Mine or its staff):

Initial weight check ensures you can get down - but aren't dramatically over weighted.

Checkout dive covers descending, clearing your mask, and doing an out of air / share air drill at about 25 feet while kneeling on the floor of the shallows. Pretty typical for an OW diver.

Its not a refresher course. And with a group of 10-13 divers - the amount if individual attention / instruction one can expect will vary - depending upon the needs of the group.

Might be for the best if the diver him (or her) self thumbed the dive - if they weren't comfortable.

 

[SoccerJeni]

Wait a minute, so she lost control of her buoyancy on the second dive too and had an uncontrolled ascent again? So what purpose does the initial weighting check and checkout dive serve if not to help a diver if they're in need of a little tweaking or to weed out those who are not ready?

Dive #1 my friend that is a girl got scared about a swim through so she headed for the surface. My friend that is a guy had a little trouble with buoyancy because he had never dove water that was less than 85 degrees so he wasn't used to that much neoprene or lead.

Dive #2 my friend that is a guy had trouble being overweighted and was sinking and was very scared. Later in that same dive my friend that is a girl accidentally surfaced at the moment when we were entering a swim through. To get into that swim through we had to rounded the corner and there we discovered there were two groups that had run into each other. I am sure she was underweighted, but I believe she tensed up and began breathing heavily as well.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

It's obvious they need a higher caliber of dive guide.

A dive guide there requires 2 separate and distinct skill sets - Full Cave certification and the associated dive skills, along with excellent SA and diver assistance skills.

In my opinion the average OW instructor, DM or OW diver is just a lost ball in high weeds in that setting. Similarly, some Full cave divers have the rest of the knowledge and skills, but a full cave cert would not automatically ensure those other soft skills are present.

 

[TCDiver1]

It's obvious they need a higher caliber of dive guide.

Not to me it's not. A Full Cave Certification certainly wouldn't hurt but what does it teach about managing a group of divers? And, is there a smoking gun at Bonne Terre mine that i'm not aware of?