Dive Leader Loyalty? - What would you do?

[Lee Taylor]

Hello Canyon Dreamer,

I have experienced this exact scenario many times while drift diving. I think the instructor could have been more clear by giving you additional hand signals. When he gave you the "Okay" hand signal, I think what he was saying was, it is okay for you to break away from the group and surface on your own.

The boat is following and typically picks up divers as they surface.

I think in his instruction he maybe should of said it it preferred to surface as a group but that does not always happen due to different air consumption rates, etc.

It is common for divers to break off from the group when drift diving and surface on their own. Instructors are usually perfectly okay with this.

You should always leave for the surface when it is time. Period. No exceptions. (well actually saving a life is the one exception that comes to mind)

 

[Warhammer]

Read this:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html

Screw the DM. He is not keeping you safe. You are. He will not pay for your funeral or chamber ride or your son's. You will. DM's that give you a plan and then violate that plan or change it at whim get people hurt. The correct signal at 700 psi was a middle finger and a wave bye-bye.

LMAO! Ain't that the truth.

I've been on a number of dives where something like this happened and ended up with a diver or multiple divers OOA on safety stops and such. But ultimately you are responsible for yourself. When it's time to end the dive, end it. In most situations you can follow the group's bubbles from above them, if you need to stay close to them.

 

[Warhammer]

When he gave you the "Okay" hand signal, I think what he was saying was, it is okay for you to break away from the group and surface on your own.

On his own or with his buddy? I've been on group dives where the DM sent a diver up by himself, signalling their buddy to stay with the group. I've also been on dives where there were 2 DMs and one of them would take a diver up, leaving his buddy down with the group and the other DM. Stuff like this has always bothered me. I stick with my buddies regardless, I expect them to do the same and I let them know this before the dive begins if we haven't dived together before. My dive ends when theirs does and vice versa.

 

[DevonDiver]

Any diver has the right to abort any dive, at any time, for any reason.

If you want to abort the dive, the divemaster should respect your wishes and help you accomplish that safely.

Proper buddy procedures - having a defined buddy that you have dive-planned and agree limits with - will enable you to take more responsibility for your dives.

One of the big problems for DMs is that one diver finishing early will also mean that another diver gets their dive cut short (assuming the DM will send you up early with your buddy). Diving in a 'herd' rather than defined buddy teams makes this much harder for the DM to do. That's the DM's fault though - they have the choice whether they want to ensure their divers are using the proper procedures. If they don't, then they're just being lazy.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I like Boulder John's analysis the best, but I can see where a new diver would be hesitant to ascend on his own into open water BEFORE the SMB was launched. Still that is a poor reason for not starting the ascent when it was prudent to do so.

The OP learned to think for themselves AND that if everything goes perfect, 350 lbs is PLENTY of air to ascend from say 60 feet.... Of course if your gage is a little off or a buddy needs to share your air and gets freaked out...350 psi at 60 feet ain't crap to work with, especially for a new diver (and his son).

That's how you learn to dive.... "WOW I don't think I will be doing that again real soon".

 

[scuboot]

I think in the same situation I would have ended the dive with my buddy. The DM might not like it, but you'll be alive to dive tomorrow. Luckily everything turned out well for you guys, but I don't play around with OOA.

 

[fnfalman]

Hindsight being what it is..if I were a newbie diver, I wouldn't be doing drift diving at all...divemaster/dive guide and whatnot.

The first thing taught in any basic scuba class is that you're responsible for your own safety. The second thing is don't dive beyond your training/experience.

And if I were experienced enough to do a drift dive, I'd refuse to do it as a group.

Hindsight being what it is.

At the end of the day, I'd do whatever it takes to get me back safely to the boat.

 

[cupojava]

I had this happen when I was in Belize on a drift dive, well, somewhat happen. My air was at 700 and our group was about 50 ft under, I signaled to the DM that I was at 700 and he signaled OK. I kept with the group until I hit 500 then I broke away from the group and went up to 15 ft for my safety stop. My buddy went with me, but the rest of the group stayed below. We stayed at 15 feet, following them until they came up to do their safety stop a while later, then we surfaced as a group. I was a bit concerned when the group didn't follow me up when I hit 500, but not overly so because my buddy stayed with me, and we could clearly see them underneath us. I'm sure other people would have done something different, but I'm proud of myself for not stressing out and using more air.

 

[Tigerman]

First off, the DM is not god. Hes got no "authority" (other than to not want to take you diving) and you as a certified diver are allowed to dive on your own (with a buddy).
When you feel the air was saying its time to ascend, you get your buddy and you ascend.

From what I gathered you signaled your DM that you had 700 bar and that you would ascend (thumbs up) and he signaled back "ok"?
If thats the case he probably said "ok, cya on the surface" if he did NOT mean that, screw it and say you missunderstood him when signaling, but that you would do it again at any given dive.
Even if you are at the surface (providing youre not in the blue in a high-traffic area), you can probably just follow them at the surface waiting for them to come up.

Personally I have surfaced both before and after the DM on guided dives. The DM will, in my experience anyways, stay with the largest group of divers. When it comes to drift diving though, and especially on smaller reefs the one thing I will not do unless I know the site well is to go AHEAD of the DM. Rounding corners of a reef can change the currents you face massively.

And remember, you have the right to refuse to do, or end, any dive at any time. Just do it somewhere safe.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I agree with the content but not the tone of most responses. No need to say "screw the DM." But what is important in this thread is to observe that in a group of recreational divers on an escorted dive, competence levels differ. Debbie and I dive in Hawaii often, and find this to be true there more than other locations, as many people with limited dive experience and who only dive once every other year or so will dive off a shop boat in Hawaii. Because of that, Jim's comment on being responsible for you own well being is important. Having to focus on a couple of problem divers is not unusual for DM's in Hawaii. Here are my suggestions for all divers in this situation, from experts to new divers:

1. Carry a safety sausage or other signaling device with you on every dive.
2. Communicate clearly with the DM on the boat and under water. Consider carrying a slate for precise communication.
3. Dive with a buddy ad stay close to your buddy all the time.
4. Your safety trumps any other "rule." I would rather be yelled at for leaving the group than putting myself in an out of air emergency.
5. Divemasters, like divers, have varying levels of experience and competence, and very divergent styles. It's ok to ask about their experience just like you would a dive buddy or another diver.
6. You should debrief the DM after an event like the one posted here, so there will be clarity on any subsequent dives.
My assessment: Canyondreamer had enough margin to not have to choose between leaving the group or running out of air. Had things been much closer, he should have ascended. As it was, his though process was clear and he did the right thing.
DivemasterDennis