What makes someone an "Advanced Scuba Diver"?

[DevonDiver]

Trying to define what is an 'Advanced Diver' is really an impossible task - well, at least, it's impossible to get a consensus.

Here's my broad pluck deciphering it:

Advanced Diver = A diver who undertakes dives in an advanced and specialist diving activity and/or a diver who undertakes regular dives showing advanced skills.

So... doing cave dives is an advanced/specialist diving activity. But within the spectrum of that activity, there will still be novice, intermediate and advanced cave divers. Thus, each activity needs a specific definition for novice/intermediate/advanced. A novice cave diver can be an advanced diver.

Likewise... doing 'regular' (for sake of definition; open-water, within 'recreational limits') dives, without specialisation, can still allow a diver to be determined as 'advanced'. In this respect we are looking at the skill and knowledge level obtained by the diver only in regard to core diving skills, such as; more precise buoyancy control, accurate navigation, gas management, problem-solving, breath of associated knowledge.

The range/depth of diving specialisation could be considered the 'tool set'. 'Advanced' may refer to the number, variety and complexity of 'tools' at the divers' disposal.

Likewise, we must also consider the divers' ability to use those tools. In which case, the level of proficiency in some, or all, of those tools could be used to define an 'Advanced' status.

I really haven't made up my mind whether I'd define a diver based on the size of their tool set, or their skill in using what tools they did possess.

The only thing that is for sure.... you know it when you see it.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Could it be that defining an advanced diver is like defining pornography? It can't be described exactly, but you know it when you see it. The difficulty of codification of the skills and/or experience and/or credentials to qualify as an "advanced diver" is also impacted by the perspective of the one defining the term.

To a new recreational diver, anyone who has a few more dives then they have may be experienced, while people like BoulderJohn and BobDBF and NorthwestGreatful all define the term in part as compard to themselves as divers, and does everyone. I may not make their list with my not quite 1000 dives, professional credential, but aversion to technical diving- I am an recreational diver.

I am I think the point is well made that a diver regardless of the number of dives they have who goes only on escorted dives and trusts to someone else to see to maintain and inspect their gear is never an advanced diver. Nor would I confuse fitness for a particular dive with being an "advanced diver" generally. That is why I think any definition must include the following:

1) excellent buoyancy and body control skills;
2) excellent navigation skills;
3)sufficient equipment knowledge to maintain and inspect the equipment the diver uses, and recognize and correct problems with it;
4)ability and knowledge to plan a safe recreational dive and carry it out without professional supervision.

These attributes are acquired in a number of different ways and at different rates of learning and mastery by each individual. These four criteria also implicate many more specific comments in the thread, including problem solving skills, conditions recognition, etc.

I think DaleC has it right- most people who speak of being advanced divers are self descriptive in the way that a t-shirt or the words on their c-card may be, and neither of those things mean much when it comes to substance. Nor does making some 100 foot deep dives make you an advanced diver any more than going on a cenote "trail ride" dive makes you a cave diver.

When I work with students in the PADI advanced class, I usually have divers with 9 to 30 prior dives including certification dives. They will get in five dives with me. We focus heavily on buoyancy, navigation, problem recognition and problem solving thinking. I stress equipment familiarity and dive planning as well. But lets face it: even the most thorough class will not create an "advanced diver " by any reasonable definition.

In an intense class the divers will emerge as better divers than when they started (at least for a while) with another 4 hours of bottom time and some tips to use as they continue to grow. In a "met the guidelines and course content" class, they emerge with less. But they have shown an interest in improving themselves as divers by taking the class, and that is a big deal. Oh, some just want the card so they can dive the Spiegel Grove or the Moloki hammerhead charter, but most are interested, enthusiastic and want to be better divers.

So when the pros , you guys on this thread, and the advanced divers who may not happen to be instructors, dive with these folks, it is us who can help them become advanced divers- independent, safe, and frankly people we would be willing to dive with. Advanced diver- I know one when I see one. To paraphrase Aristotle, don't tell me you are an advanced diver. Let me watch you dive for a day, and I'll tell you if you are an advanced diver.

DivemasterDennis

Sorry, Dennis, I had to punctuate! I just couldn't help myself! (Yes, I know the advanced editor did it)

 

[Colliam7]

This thread has evolved in directions that may appear to be in some cases tangentially related to the topic, but which are nonetheless fascinating and informative.

My primary take away lesson at this point (which is a change of heart): ‘Advanced’ is a term that has no place in any formal scheme of categorizing diver ability, development, or preparation. Yet, it will continue to exist because the agencies that employ it have no reason to change. Plus, the term possibly has a certain cache, a certain appeal to divers, and perhaps also to trainers. Personally, I don’t think that’s a problem – I don’t agree with the use of the term, but I am really not affected by others using it.

My secondary take away lesson is actually more valuable. Thal has presented here, and in a 2010 thread on the term ‘Master Scuba Diver’, an adaptation of the Dreyfus model of Skill Acquisition. It is intellectually stimulating. You could, perhaps, also apply Bloom’s taxonomy of learning, and parse the process of diver development into Knowledge, Comprehension, Application, Analysis, Synthesis, and Evaluation (aka Recall, Grasp, Apply, Analyze, Synthesize, Judge). The point is that there are (reasonably validated) models of learning, skill acquisition and the development of expertise and wisdom, that have universal applicability, are widely accepted, and somewhat fully developed, and diving is not particularly unique (fortunately). In those models, ‘advanced’ is also not a term of significance. And, in most of those models, experience plays an important role – in virtually no discipline does an entry level ‘practitioner’ perform beyond a rudimentary level – they simply do not have the experience base, and they do not acquire it before entry level certification (e.g. Private Pilot), and to expect otherwise is probably naive. Notably, there actually have been a few attempts to study diver development through application of one or more models of learning and development. So, even though we may not be able to change the volume of experience a student diver receives before certification, maybe we can change some of the teaching methods to enhance the value of the time that they do spend in training. For example, would student-instructor discussion of 6-10 problem-solving scenarios, that focused on situations like the one Bob described, help divers to better understand how to set priorities, and adapt to changing conditrions? Determination of the action to be taken (and I would probably do what DaleC indicated he would do) would become secondary to defning the order of priorities (getting out of the current, or getting to the surface, on staying on the wall, or staying with your buddy, etc.)

(There is a third take away, having to do with relative economic consequences of poor performance across various fields of endeavor, and the resulting availability of funding for research, that I will hold onto for awhile, rather than make this post even longer.)

 

[Mike Boswell]

To the foregoing I will add just one little thing (for which I will undoubtedly get a hot reception), and that is this: I feel that every time I dive at a new site, which is often, I am a "beginner". I don't recognize any landmarks, I have no idea what the currents are likely to be or how they might change, I have no idea what sort of critters might sting me, or eat me, and ...Well, you get the point: It's all new.

And the point of my point is this: If you jump in the water with the attitude that you know it all, as I have seen several people do, you are far more likely to get in serious trouble.

 

[ajduplessis]

The term "Advanced" have different meanings to different divers and covers a wide spectrum of things.
For me its having safe diving practices, mindset and understanding of diver safety.

 

[TSandM]

For me its having safe diving practices, mindset and understanding of diver safety.

I'd be interested in having you flesh that out a bit. I would be unhappy if any of our OW students finished the class without an understanding of safe diving practices, a careful mindset, and the ability to identify conditions that are beyond their capabilities.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

To avoid writing a novel, I'll offer my 2c as it being about awareness -- while planning a dive and while diving -- and the scope and speed with which the diver's awareness extends. How fast and how many moves ahead you think while diving is, IMO, the best yardstick for who is "advanced."

Did OW students pass a test and do a few dives showing

an understanding of safe diving practices, a careful mindset, and the ability to identify conditions that are beyond their capabilities

? Sure. But there's a chasm between saying, when asked about potential hazards, that current on a dive site can be a factor... and knowing because you checked that your site averages 1-2 knots towards a problematic direction, recognizing instantly upon dropping in that things feel a lot more like 4 knots, realizing what that means for your dive, and acting accordingly.

 

[Mike Boswell]

I'd be interested in having you flesh that out a bit. I would be unhappy if any of our OW students finished the class without an understanding of safe diving practices, a careful mindset, and the ability to identify conditions that are beyond their capabilities.

Yes, but knowing you, you would be turning out very advanced OW divers... IJS

 

[ajduplessis]

@TsandM So would you then describe your OW students as not having the skills or knowledge to safely/successfully complete dives according their training level? Or are you just fishing for compliments?

 

[Spazzy]

The British Sub Aqua Club (BSAC) had an Advanced Diver award that is focussed on supervising diving groups, rescue management skills and expedition planning whilst building seamanship and developing leadership qualities. The course has relatively few ‘formal’ practical lessons and is much more heavily based on a structured broadening of experience, particularly dive management. This includes planning an expedition and experience dives that may include drift dives, dives in overhead environments and advanced decompression dives including use of trimix.

Advanced Diver - British Sub-Aqua Club