Tina Watson Death - The Full Story

[clownfishsydney]

A bit more from Dr Carl Edmonds, only received by me today for a paper he has written for DAN Australia's newsletter.

Autopsy. The cause of death, according to the forensic Pathologist, Professor David Williams, was drowning. Extensive air embolism was also present, in both arterial and venous systems, and this was said to have occurred when there was still an active vascular circulation.

Post mortem CT scans also revealed sphenoidal and other sinus opacities, indicating descent whist unconscious but alive, and bilateral pneumothoraces.

This "drowning" diagnosis was modified to "Asphyxia" by both the Australian judiciary and police, presumably to support a conviction of death from cessation of an air supply (a forensic description of asphyxia). This was not accepted by Judge Nail in Atlanta, who correctly adhered to the pathologist's diagnosis of drowning. The lung weights and histology were characteristic of drowning, not simple asphyxia.

A more clinical diving medical assessment would be:

1. Aspiration, Hypoxia and then Drowning (not Asphyxia)

Supported by
· Lungs at autopsy
· Froth ++ on surfacing and during resuscitation

Predisposing causes
· Panic, personality factors
· Over-weighted
· Exertion and over breathing the regulator
· Inexperience in the diving environment (currents, depth)
· Salt water aspiration leading to hypoxia and drowning

2. Air Embolism from Pulmonary Barotrauma

Supported by autopsy and post-mortem CT scan findings of excessive gas
· bilateral pneumothoraces.
· Gas in arterial system
· Blood coming out of her mouth or nose

Predisposing factors
· rapid ascent
· positive pressure from the purge valve of the regulator.

The dive profile, the amount of gas and its distribution indicated that other explanations, such as putrefaction or post-mortem decompression artefact (off-gassing) were inadequate to explain the above findings, without pulmonary barotrauma and air embolism.

Hope this helps explain it more, especially for Tina's family. Note that 60 Minutes Australia is doing a story on this on Sunday night (I think). They interviewed Carl today, not sure if they will approach me as they have been recommended to do.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Has anybody here checked out this thread? http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-related/237087-why-so-many-female-divers-codependent.html There are heaps of posts about women (and some men) who were/are pressured into diving by their partners. Nothing ominous or sinister about it. Some really take to it others don't. Every person who starts to dive does so for a reason that they feel is worth the effort. Choosing to continue is also a personal choice. It seems to me every time I hear about Tina taking up diving the quote goes along the line of.."he said if I wanted him to do the things I like that I need to do the things he likes" sounds like fair reasoning to me

I do find it interesting that all the negative comments remain one sided. IMHO The fact that Watsons have not gone about saying negative things about the Thomases indicates a lot of class. I find that just doesn't mesh with all the horrible, negative things Gabe is supposed to have done. The Minister who did their pre wedding counseling described a totally different interaction between Gabe and Tina... a couple very much in love who joked back and forth. The videos of them together supports that description. I don't know what Thomases saw... I only know what I see. The flowers on the grave was nasty but I think a lot of people might do that kind of thing under the same situation... accused of murder and being demonized publicly I am not saying I think he should have done it.. just that there were extenuating circumstances....

We can talk about how Gabe wanted to collect Tina's belongings... but he was responsibile for her estate. Nobody seems to have commented on the fact that Tina's belongings were removed from her work site by Thomases before Gabe went there to pick them up.. nobody puts sinister meaning to that! Nobody seem to be concerned that Gabe had to pay off Tinas debts and cost of bringing her home.. but he didn't get the insurance money to help with those costs or did Mr Thomas use this insurance money to pay her debts? I personally don't care what Mr Thomas did with the money. I am just saying look at both sides.

Whether I like my daughter in law or not.. she is my son's choice and my job is to support him and not to do things that create division in his relationship. I have said this before. I would never encourage my son to lie to his partner as Mr Thomas says he did with Tina. That just does not support the ethical standard I tried to raise my son to adhere to! I am sure that if my in-laws wanted to they could come up with a pile of things that made me look bad in my relationship with my husband. I just depends on your focus.

IHMO we really need to stop looking at unsubstantiated and biased memories of events. OK I get it the Thomas camp don't like Gabe.. seems like they haven't from the beginning. I don't question their right to their feelings. I question anybody's right to try to make me dislike someone because they dislike them!

I want to look at the unemotional facts and learn what I can to stay safe diving.. the keep my friends safe diving.

 

[Lookmanohands]

Kgirl, I knew you wouldn't let me down. Seriously, are you quoting "honeymoon dive"? Please tell me you got your info from some place other than the book and Nancy Grace?
Gabe was yelling at Tina for what he thought she was doing wrong and telling her she has to learn how to dive because he's really a good guy and he really thought that would be the best thing for her
Gabe's dive instructor testified he was not at her training sessions.

Ayisha- Yes, I believe there was some conversation about that between the instructor and Tina. Her response according to the instructor was something to the effect that Gabe would kill her if she didn't get certified. Is this the same dive master that testified at the inquest Tina was the most panicked diver he has ever seen? Pretty sure we are talking about the same guy. The same guy that certified her anyway. Wow, what a guy. He recognizes a diver that should not be certified and lacks the skills and competency to dive safely and he certifies her to get his $25.00 certification fee.

Divedoggie- I wasn't trying to insinuate a character judgement as much as people have characterized Gabe as being mean to Tina based on things people have said but cannot prove. Things that Tina said and have been retold without their context. The two had an amazing ability to play off each other to make people laugh. To some, with a story retold out of context it could seem mean, but to those watching in person it was normal and hilarious.

Tina used Gabe as an excuse to get out of being around her family. There were multiple occasions where we would all be out and she would say that her mom absolutely hates Gabe because she used him as an excuse again to get out of doing something with her family. So to those she didn't want to be around in her family, yes, he would have seemed controlling. To us, he was her rock allowing her to make him the bad guy to her family so the heat would be deflected off her. Can I prove this anymore than they can prove he said ugly things to Tina, nope. But would Gabe confirm this if someone asked him, yep. Are there others that would confirm it, yep.

Another thing I am curious about. People have criticized Gabe for going to the surface when he got to the point he didn't know what else to do to help Tina. If he thought he could get help and get back in a couple of minutes, why was that not the right thing to do. His instructor testified he taught his rescue students to find help when they were beyond their abilities. You have to get re-certified at CPR every year, lifeguards have continual training etc. A rescue diver is supposed to be sharp on skills they never retrain on to use years later in a stressful situation that involves a loved one? Why can't dr.'s operate on loved ones but "rescue" divers are supposed to be able to save loved ones? Is the "rescue" training that much more involved than med school?

Kgirl - Got a question for ya. Dr. Stutz testified at the trial and inquest that as Tina and the other diver believed to be Gabe separated, Tina was alive. If Gabe turned her air off and waited til she was dead before turning it back on, how did Dr. Stutz come to the conclusion she was alive? You have to take Dr. Stutz as all or none. If he is wrong about one part, he has to be suspect to be wrong about everything he saw. At the trial he was asked by the defense was Tina alive when the two divers separated, he answered yes, she was alive. When the state re x Stutz, he said again, she was alive, but dying. If she was "dying", she was not dead. If she was not dead, and Gabe already was on the way to the surface as reported by Stutz, her air was on. If her air was on and she was alive as per Stutz, how did Gabe commit murder by turning her air off?

 

[Foxfish]

Anyone that knew Tina at all, knew she would never have had that conversation, she always changed the subject when it came to death. Gabe said he wanted doves released at her funeral, Tina was a huge animal lover, it would have upset her very badly to know that doves were caged. Is all of this information proof that he killed Tina? No. But it does say alot about his character. There are so many other things that make Gabe look like a sociopath, it's scary....So our belief that Gabe killed Tina was not based on just the information we were given, it was also based on the past 8 1/2 years of dealing with all the horrible things that happened both before the wedding and after her death.

Kreed, you sound childish and naive. Spreading malicious gossip and publicly accusing someone of murder after they have been acquitted in court on two occasions is far more serious than anything you claim Gabe did. I'd suggest that you desist from making these claims.

 

[Foxfish]

One the question of who was responsible for Tina's death, may I suggest the following:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html

An extract:

This sport is fun, exciting, educational, relaxing, and if practiced within the limits of one's training and experience- SAFE. BUT to go beyond one's experience level, training, and even comfort level too fast or too far is inviting disaster. Every instructor should impart to their student that this sport can kill and do it in some very nasty ways. You were told or will be told to not hold your breath. But was it stressed as to why and what could happen if you did. Terms like lung overexpansion injury or pneumothorax or embolism were or will be used.

But do you really know how serious these things are? Do you realize what happens when a lung rips and air rushes into the chest cavity or sack around the heart and bloody froth comes out of the mouth. Or an air bubble enters the blood stream and travels to the brain resulting in a condtion similar to a stroke with all the after affects of a stroke such as paralysis, loss of memory, loss of muscle control, and death.

Who is responsible for an occurence like this? The diver is! They were told not to hold their breath but did anyway, why? Maybe they panicked. But if they panicked why did they panic? Most likely they were in a situation they were not ready for. Who is responsible for that?

Others may share a degree of responsibility for your safety. Blaming another person doesn't help when you are dead.

 

[Mark Derail]

Lookmanohands, yes, I am Tina's cousin that was in court every single day, no I did not do an interview. Didn't know this was supposed to be a Gabe support page, I thought it was an open forum. Me and my family did for a long time think this was a terrible accident, but did change our minds once we were shown the evidence.

I'm blown away by this. I didn't want this to be a Gabe Support Page either!!!
Rather a Michael Is Brave Page - and a Let's Discuss Facts Page; it takes guts for Michael to come out like this to this level, knowing he will be nitpicked to the bone. He could have let this go, shutup, never talk about it.

I support so far Michael's views - personally I think also that Gabe failed in his duty - but fail to see how that is premeditated murder.

The fact that you participate, myself personally, I am glad. Always nice to see / hear both sides of the coin.

I hope you appreciate input such as mine. My feelings so far is that the deceased placed to much trust in her partner, said partner being a "rescue diver". I'm just the first level, OW, then there's Advanced, then tech courses and rescue. IOW, a rescue diver would typically have over 100 dives in various conditions - drift (current), deep and night. While Gabe wasn't a Dive Master (DM) technically he should be "close" insofar as training - not experience.

In my opinion, Gabe should have had on him the extra weights, and gradually added to Tina's BCD (vest pockets) weights as needed. That's responsibility, not motive for murder, and Gabe served time for this.

I'd be more interested in "the other side of the coin" point-by-point that is different, that difference being critical - in judging between a "murder" and "gross negligence causing death".

Ex: Like if Gabe (conjecture on my part) turned off Tina's air without Tina knowing about it. Something very difficult to do if I ever tried it.

And please use formatting. It gets hard reading a mega-paragraph that is partially a huge run-on sentence. You can even go back & edit your posts.

 

[boulderjohn]

I hope you appreciate input such as mine. My feelings so far is that the deceased placed to much trust in her partner, said partner being a "rescue diver". I'm just the first level, OW, then there's Advanced, then tech courses and rescue. IOW, a rescue diver would typically have over 100 dives in various conditions - drift (current), deep and night.

I think this is a common misconception.

The Rescue Diver certification name implies much, much more than it really is. It requires no technical diving whatsoever. I don't know what the NASDS requirements were, but with PADI it is possible to begin that training after a total of 9 lifetime dives in any environment. If I understand it correctly, the instructor said in the trial that it was possible by NASDS standards to start it immediately after OW training, meaning it could have been started on a diver's 5th dive. (I am ready to be corrected if that is wrong.) Most of the skills required for the certification are done on the surface, so there is not that much diving experience involved. I believe it was said that his training only required one dive. If so, then those standards were well below PADI's.

 

[Mark Derail]

Question Michael - How many salt-water OW dives did Tina have? IOW, was the first aborted dive then the second fatal, her first non-certification dives?

This would confirm to me that new divers should be required to do some skills on their first "deeper" dive in true ocean conditions - that it should be a NAUI/PADI requirement enforced to all dive ops. At the very least, the DM/guides - often instructors - should mandate this to the "new" or "green" divers.

That just because you are OW certified, not to assume "just go do your own thing". Fact - the dive ops I've been to so far, Maui HI and Grand Cayman, the DM's and the captains wanted to know if we were green or not. However, I don't know if they would have reacted differently.

Below is a link to YouTube and a video that my wife Kelly put together of Blue Water Quarry in Birmingham, Alabama, where Gabe and Tina did their training. As you can see, it is a very easy place to dive. Note that the first half of the video is just over 25 metres or almost 90 feet.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself

 

[gbrandon]

Foxfish, I suggest you learn about the laws of the USA and the right to free speech. If you are so upset by it sue her for your perceived use of slander, otherwise put a sock in it. Everyone on here trying to be a armchair detective, LOL, perhaps less T.V. and more time outside? I could care less if he's innocent or guilty, because I'm not a attorney nor a detective! One thing you people seem to overlook is that Tina's husband was a P.O.S that did controlling manipulative things in their relationship and that alone is enough to hope that he dies in a fiery car wreck. There is no justification to throwing pizza in someones face, holding their engagement ring over their head or other bullying behavior that he engaged in. You people try to justify those things by downplaying them or suggesting since there was only one person there it must not have happened. Kreed is right, her comment of him having all the makings of a sociopath is right on the money!

​

 

[clownfishsydney]

Tina had never done a dive in the ocean before the first aborted dive. She had only done one dive after finishing her course, this was also in Blue Water Quarry and was to less than 30 feet for 33 minutes. She had five (yes five) dives under her belt. The other dives that were used to say she had 11 were a snorkel and five pool dives doing training exercises (these should not have been counted).

Yes, at the the time, a person could do Rescue Diver course as soon as they finished their Open Water course.

Finally, to refute comments made by others, I have decided to put up some comments from two ex-girlfriends of Gabe that show, in their view, Gabe was not a controlling freak, not a nasty person, not the one who made decisions for her and more. I will do this later today.