NACD Intro - 58cf Limit - Why?

[Jax]

Not as big a barrier as several (tens of several?) feet of solid rock and no air between it and the water.

I think there SHOULD be a big barrier to going into a cave, and 1/3's on singles "these days" (i.e. with modern gear, training and knowledge) is pretty nuts.

It's not necessarily even the 1/3s (which is bad enough) but a huge single failure-point on the regs, plus the entire attitude of "There shouldn't be a barrier, it should be easy"

I understood the only single failure was the tank itself, as the valve must be "Y" or "H" and two regs.

of course, I suppose it's (supposed) to be a "free country" here in the US so who would I be to try to stop someone ?

If it is that important that people have a fully redundant setup, then why isn't anyone campaigning to change the requirements?

I think we have come full circle again.

 

[limeyx]

If it is that important that people have a fully redundant setup, then why isn't anyone campaigning to change the requirements?

I think we have come full circle again.

Because every time I/"we" do
- We get called "Elitists"
- Everyone argues that they "shouldn't have to go back and take all the 'beginner' classes all over again "Just to take a cavern/cave course"
- No one likes the (supposed) rigidity and "non-thinkingness" that they believe those classes impose on you bring
- "No one" wants to pay that much for gear/training (which should be cheap right ?)

So many people (myself for sure) gave up and went off and did their diving their way and didn't really care about what other people are doing too much.

 

[PfcAJ]

The zeitgeist is headed that way. There are less and less intro classes being taught on a single tank, just as there are less and less deep air classes. I'd like to think that discussions like this help to dissuade potential students from taking cave training without the proper (double tanks, we can debate the merits of how they are configured elsewhere) redundancy.

 

[Jax]

Because every time I/"we" do
- We get called "Elitists"
- Everyone argues that they "shouldn't have to go back and take all the 'beginner' classes all over again "Just to take a cavern/cave course"
- No one likes the (supposed) rigidity and "non-thinkingness" that they believe those classes impose on you bring
- "No one" wants to pay that much for gear/training (which should be cheap right ?)

So many people (myself for sure) gave up and went off and did their diving their way and didn't really care about what other people are doing too much.

Oh, cool, just like me!

---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

The zeitgeist is headed that way. There are less and less intro classes being taught on a single tank, just as there are less and less deep air classes. I'd like to think that discussions like this help to dissuade potential students from taking cave training without the proper (double tanks, we can debate the merits of how they are configured elsewhere) redundancy.

Well, from this potential student's (can I still say that? :huh point of view, it worked! :cool3:

 

[Thalassamania]

Right.

Except with all the right instruction and all the right equipment, I still don't understand why you need "head protection" to cave dive.



Typically a basic skillset will keep you from hitting your head on cave...

I'm told that the zero visibility British caves make helmets imperative.

that's what annoyed me most and made me post in this mess of a thread. cave diving is deadly serious and that attitude is dangerous

All diving is, in the end, deadly serious. Those who take the diving diving that they do seriously always are annoyed by those who do not, that the way the world is.

Agreed, now I am off to climb Mt Rainier in my slippers and and leisure suit

EDIT: It will probably be OK as long as I only go a couple thousand feet up, right ???

No, if you still have (ever had) a "leisure suit" you are not "all right."

Because every time I/"we" do
- We get called "Elitists"
- Everyone argues that they "shouldn't have to go back and take all the 'beginner' classes all over again "Just to take a cavern/cave course"
- No one likes the (supposed) rigidity and "non-thinkingness" that they believe those classes impose on you bring
- "No one" wants to pay that much for gear/training (which should be cheap right ?)

So many people (myself for sure) gave up and went off and did their diving their way and didn't really care about what other people are doing too much.

Whenever you take on a new thing it is good to go back to the beginning and work your way back up, just to be sure you didn't miss anything. I don't cave dive, but if I decided to do so I would not embark on any of the course sequences that are out there, I would find an instructor who was wiling to start working with me as though I had never been diving before and go through each and every step, as quickly as I was able to progress.

The zeitgeist is headed that way. There are less and less intro classes being taught on a single tank, just as there are less and less deep air classes. I'd like to think that discussions like this help to dissuade potential students from taking cave training without the proper (double tanks, we can debate the merits of how they are configured elsewhere) redundancy.

I see no problem with a single tank, but a single regulator is a problem in my mind. So that means a slingshot (or similar) so you can mount a second reg, by the time you're done you're rather close to the cost of adding a second tank anyway. For folks who want to do an intro class, independent doubles are a reasonable and inexpensive approach that might be examined.

 

[PfcAJ]

A single tank doesn't allow you much volume (time) to deal with problems, nor does it address issues with the tank valve and burst disk assembly. Its bad news all around.

Btw, there are plenty of zero vis Florida dives as well. I don't bash my head into walls here. Sump diving is a different beast with all the transitions from dry to wet caving.

 

[Thalassamania]

A single tank doesn't allow you much volume (time) to deal with problems, nor does it address issues with the tank valve and burst disk assembly. Its bad news all around.

...

We are talking about minimum gear configuration for an into class, that means leadership personnel in close attendance and no severe restrictions. While I agree that it is better, in a whole bunch of ways, to train the way you should dive, using a single with a slingshot should not, for an intro class, be prohibited, IMHO.

 

[PfcAJ]

Ok, I see where this is headed. More comments on cave diving from the non-cave certified peanut gallery.

Leadership personell? Two guys got LOST in JB 2 weeks ago. Come on. With a single tank, the clock is ticking. Fast.

 

[LiteHedded]

what the hell is a slingshot?

so far cave divers are against single tanks, non cave divers are for it. is that about the score so far?

 

[cavemn]

what the hell is a slingshot?

I hope it's not some kind of man thong. I don't need to see cavern divers hangin out while I'm doing deco.