In the last few years I was invited to many dive centers. I learnt much about dive professionals' work and since then I know how many times they face unrealistic expectations. For a guest a dive trip is a holiday but for the owners, instructors and guides it's a challenging job to organize safe dives which make everybody happy. If they do their best during the trips it's quite unfair to be angry because they want to relax after office hours. I never had a problem when organized a first visit in the dive center: in the afternoon or 30 minutes before the first daytrip, etc. I try to be as "professional" guest as professional were the best dive industry workers I met.
Dahab - Rude Manager at Red Sea Relax. Buyer beware
- Thread starter black_sea
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Mike
Contributor
If somebody calls your phone when you're after hours or at a family function.
#1 don't answer it if you don't want to take a call at that time, that's what voice mail is for.
#2 If you answer it, listen, see it's not an emergency or any other reason you should continue the conversation and simply inform the caller that you are at a family function and cannot respond to his questions at this time. Then ask when is a convenient time for me to call you back or give the caller a convenient time you'll be available to answer his questions, or direct him to someone who can answer his questions.
Is it really that difficult to do? Your phone rings at a family event or after hours and YOU answer it and it's the callers fault that he disturbed you????
While the OP never dived with the dive center in question, he doesn't know anything about the diving, he certainly had very good intuition based on the managers email response which is childish and unprofessional in every manner. That response certainly speaks volumes to say the OP made a good gut decision to avoid that shop. The OP may not have actually seen the rot, but he certainly smelled something and he was obviously right to walk away.
If the manager can't separate his personal feelings from his professional interactions with customers he's in the wrong profession. If that's the quality of managers there, it says volumes for the quality of operation that he is managing. I certainly would never dive with a dive operation that employs a manager like that one. They may be able to survive without the OP's business, but they won't be able to survive without the business of people like him.
Also keep in mind the OP never reviewed the dive shop's diving staff, dives or anything else, he simply related the experience he had dealing with the front office and the manager. He made no conjecture to the quality of the dive staff or the diving experience.
#1 don't answer it if you don't want to take a call at that time, that's what voice mail is for.
#2 If you answer it, listen, see it's not an emergency or any other reason you should continue the conversation and simply inform the caller that you are at a family function and cannot respond to his questions at this time. Then ask when is a convenient time for me to call you back or give the caller a convenient time you'll be available to answer his questions, or direct him to someone who can answer his questions.
Is it really that difficult to do? Your phone rings at a family event or after hours and YOU answer it and it's the callers fault that he disturbed you????
While the OP never dived with the dive center in question, he doesn't know anything about the diving, he certainly had very good intuition based on the managers email response which is childish and unprofessional in every manner. That response certainly speaks volumes to say the OP made a good gut decision to avoid that shop. The OP may not have actually seen the rot, but he certainly smelled something and he was obviously right to walk away.
If the manager can't separate his personal feelings from his professional interactions with customers he's in the wrong profession. If that's the quality of managers there, it says volumes for the quality of operation that he is managing. I certainly would never dive with a dive operation that employs a manager like that one. They may be able to survive without the OP's business, but they won't be able to survive without the business of people like him.
Also keep in mind the OP never reviewed the dive shop's diving staff, dives or anything else, he simply related the experience he had dealing with the front office and the manager. He made no conjecture to the quality of the dive staff or the diving experience.
With reference to the above - voicemail is not the norm in the Egyptian mobile phone network. In fact, I do not recall ever dialling a number in Egypt where I even got the chance to leave a voicemail.
And should the manager of a dive centre answer his calls after hours? That comes with the job - maybe it's an instructor calling to say they have had an accident and can't work tomorrow, maybe one of the boat captains says the engine won't start, could be there's a typhoon warning. I tanked a guy once and had to call my ops manager from a random Thai Navy guy's mobile phone; one of our boats was almost ripped in two whilst at anchor in the evening by a boat whose throttle had stuck open; I can name three other dive centre managers who have been called at random o'clock in the morning with the happy news that "we are sinking", or there was the guy that got a stonefish sting on a night dive at around 8:30pm and the ops manager left the party he was attending to oversee the diver's visit to hospital... and there is no instructor who has ever worked in the tropics who has not phoned his or her boss out-of-hours that they can't work tomorrow because they have been sitting on the toilet for three hours and don't plan on leaving the bathroom any time soon.
So - put the phone on voicemail? Sorry, even if it was available, it's just not possible for a dive centre manager to turn off the phone. If a doctor attending his daughter's birthday party gets called by a patient who has developed a mild cold, he's probably going to be a little cheesed off. If the patient was having a heart attack, he'd drop the birthday cake and get the first available transport to the hospital, but either way the doctor has to be available, because that's his job.
As for separating personal feelings from the job? At what point do you separate the two? Is that the moment you leave work after a 12 hour day, or the moment you start losing bookings because the dive centre you personally manage has been negatively reviewed for no real reason? Don't forget, the angry reply from the dive centre manager came after the report had been written on TripAdvisor - not the other way around. This isn't a job where you can be an accountant from 9-5 and hag up the pin-stripe suit and wear a pair of jeans at the weekend - being a dive centre manager is more like being a mother. There's a lot of hard work involved, you need to be available 24 hours a day, you can't run away from your job, and occasionally it wakes up screaming at 3am in the morning.
Cheers
C.
And should the manager of a dive centre answer his calls after hours? That comes with the job - maybe it's an instructor calling to say they have had an accident and can't work tomorrow, maybe one of the boat captains says the engine won't start, could be there's a typhoon warning. I tanked a guy once and had to call my ops manager from a random Thai Navy guy's mobile phone; one of our boats was almost ripped in two whilst at anchor in the evening by a boat whose throttle had stuck open; I can name three other dive centre managers who have been called at random o'clock in the morning with the happy news that "we are sinking", or there was the guy that got a stonefish sting on a night dive at around 8:30pm and the ops manager left the party he was attending to oversee the diver's visit to hospital... and there is no instructor who has ever worked in the tropics who has not phoned his or her boss out-of-hours that they can't work tomorrow because they have been sitting on the toilet for three hours and don't plan on leaving the bathroom any time soon.
So - put the phone on voicemail? Sorry, even if it was available, it's just not possible for a dive centre manager to turn off the phone. If a doctor attending his daughter's birthday party gets called by a patient who has developed a mild cold, he's probably going to be a little cheesed off. If the patient was having a heart attack, he'd drop the birthday cake and get the first available transport to the hospital, but either way the doctor has to be available, because that's his job.
As for separating personal feelings from the job? At what point do you separate the two? Is that the moment you leave work after a 12 hour day, or the moment you start losing bookings because the dive centre you personally manage has been negatively reviewed for no real reason? Don't forget, the angry reply from the dive centre manager came after the report had been written on TripAdvisor - not the other way around. This isn't a job where you can be an accountant from 9-5 and hag up the pin-stripe suit and wear a pair of jeans at the weekend - being a dive centre manager is more like being a mother. There's a lot of hard work involved, you need to be available 24 hours a day, you can't run away from your job, and occasionally it wakes up screaming at 3am in the morning.
Cheers
C.
I think the thing that some of you guys are missing is the fact that I did answer the OP call after hours and I did tell him the dives were different every day. I said that I couldn't say where they would be going the following day because the customers who were diving the previous day would decide where they would dive the following day. I also told him the dive centre opens at 8oclock and I would be able to answer questions about the diving then.
It wasn't until almost two weeks after that I saw the review he posted on TripAdvisor slandering not just me but also the dive center and resort when the OP did not even stay or dive with us. People have commented on my 'unprofessional' response but who wouldn't be angry with an unfair and invalid condemnation of themselves and their business and want to say something in return? Pettily based on what he deemed an unsatisfactory telephone conversation outside business hours the OP set about to cause actual harm to the dive center by writing a malicious review. All this talk of 'professionalism'...it's hardly how I would describe his conduct in this matter.
Paul.
It wasn't until almost two weeks after that I saw the review he posted on TripAdvisor slandering not just me but also the dive center and resort when the OP did not even stay or dive with us. People have commented on my 'unprofessional' response but who wouldn't be angry with an unfair and invalid condemnation of themselves and their business and want to say something in return? Pettily based on what he deemed an unsatisfactory telephone conversation outside business hours the OP set about to cause actual harm to the dive center by writing a malicious review. All this talk of 'professionalism'...it's hardly how I would describe his conduct in this matter.
Paul.
Mike
Contributor
See #2 --
Professional is as professional does. You either find a way or you don't. You either go through life rationalizing your weaknesses or you overcome them. You only have to be 10% smarter than any problem you face in order to overcome it.
I think many of us can outsmart this seemingly world shattering problem of juggling work and personal life without resorting to acting like a complete unprofessional ass as the only solution.
For the dive op and every other service business in existence - if you haven't figured it out yet, you're officially now on notice, it's a small world when it comes to this sort of stuff, your customers will get the word out about you. If you think you have the right to have a bad day and take it out on your customers, or get upset because you answer your phone while you're at a birthday party and take it out on a customer, or whatever other reason you can come up with, just be aware that you make that choice fully knowing you're rolling the dice that the person on the other end of your problem will, can or might make it public knowledge. The internet outs lots of poorly run businesses that used to be able to hide. The internet outs poor quality customer care.
You can rationalize your justifications all you want, but the bottom line is, you better not pretend that you don't run the risk of somebody posting a review about you.
If you have 100 glowing reviews and 2-3 bad ones the way future customers judge you isn't by the 3 bad reviews but how you handle them, how you reply to them, how you deal with them. The way this guy dealt with a problem puts the other good reviews now in question.
Shasta_man
Contributor
Short answer: You had every right to be upset at his characterization and to say so but the personal nature of the response was too much.
Agreed that the OPs expectations were unreasonable and he could have avoided some of this and you did make extra "above and beyond" effort to help him. It is reasonable to disagree with his characterization and that his post went too far on the little info he had. However, his post doesn't seem to rise to the egregious horrible personal attack that you took it as. And I'd say it wasn't slanderous. He explained clearly that he tried to contact you knowingly after hours and insisted on talking to you though being told that you were off and didn't want to talk. He even pointed out that even though you didn't want to talk, you actually did though you were short while you did point out that dives could be different. He then walked across the street and got the royal treatment from some place that is actually on the "stay away from" list, but that happened to be ready to talk to any customer.
He directly says my beef is I tried to talk to a company after hours and they didn't want to, and I think they ought to be available always. Perhaps it's only me, but how can I fault you for not doing business after hours and why would the majority of people think you should have?
His review just said "It felt like they did not want my business nor care about customer service. If you are a serious diver that demands quality service, I would suggest you stay away from Red Sea Relax" He just said he thinks normal customer service is working after hours and this just says he thinks your customer service is not good because you don't. That doesn't seem like a major indictment to me, even though you think his characterization is wrong and based on an unfair test. I don't think it is slander because he merely stated the facts as you acknowledge they occurred and his last statement was just an opinion. You had every right to write him an email explaining how his complaint was unfair and that you did make efforts above and beyond, and that service is a priority, etc, etc.. He might have even retracted his post or continued with the same ideas and unchanged and be unable to please him. However, he likely would have never made this post without the personal nature of your response to him. Agreed that you would feel insulted by his post but it's really about the business. There are many of these review places and they won't be going away. They are good resources if you take them with a grain of salt. I take all the info I have in aggregate to determine the reality, then decide. I don't think it's going to be possible to avoid all bad comments. Maybe he actually helped you by telling a few people with his ideas not to come and everybody else to take care of biz during biz hours.
Agreed that the OPs expectations were unreasonable and he could have avoided some of this and you did make extra "above and beyond" effort to help him. It is reasonable to disagree with his characterization and that his post went too far on the little info he had. However, his post doesn't seem to rise to the egregious horrible personal attack that you took it as. And I'd say it wasn't slanderous. He explained clearly that he tried to contact you knowingly after hours and insisted on talking to you though being told that you were off and didn't want to talk. He even pointed out that even though you didn't want to talk, you actually did though you were short while you did point out that dives could be different. He then walked across the street and got the royal treatment from some place that is actually on the "stay away from" list, but that happened to be ready to talk to any customer.
He directly says my beef is I tried to talk to a company after hours and they didn't want to, and I think they ought to be available always. Perhaps it's only me, but how can I fault you for not doing business after hours and why would the majority of people think you should have?
His review just said "It felt like they did not want my business nor care about customer service. If you are a serious diver that demands quality service, I would suggest you stay away from Red Sea Relax" He just said he thinks normal customer service is working after hours and this just says he thinks your customer service is not good because you don't. That doesn't seem like a major indictment to me, even though you think his characterization is wrong and based on an unfair test. I don't think it is slander because he merely stated the facts as you acknowledge they occurred and his last statement was just an opinion. You had every right to write him an email explaining how his complaint was unfair and that you did make efforts above and beyond, and that service is a priority, etc, etc.. He might have even retracted his post or continued with the same ideas and unchanged and be unable to please him. However, he likely would have never made this post without the personal nature of your response to him. Agreed that you would feel insulted by his post but it's really about the business. There are many of these review places and they won't be going away. They are good resources if you take them with a grain of salt. I take all the info I have in aggregate to determine the reality, then decide. I don't think it's going to be possible to avoid all bad comments. Maybe he actually helped you by telling a few people with his ideas not to come and everybody else to take care of biz during biz hours.
DevonDiver
N/A
Did you read the full thread? In what way was the center manager unprofessional or 'weak'?
One solution is to set a boundary between work and personal life - such as, politely answering the phone, hearing the customers questions, answering them, but deferring a more complete conversation until working hours the next day. Again, in what way is that unprofessional?
Care to disagree? Let's chat about it. Please PM me your phone number....
Expectation management. This might be a 'customer service' industry, but that doesn't entail bending over and taking it from every unreasonable, over-demanding customer.
...and maybe a little hypocrisy. Do you leave your personal phone available for customers/employees/bosses etc 24/7? For free (not paid 'on call')?
The dive center concerned was open...and staff were available to answer questions. The OP 'demanded' to speak to the manager. Right here, right now. How many businesses are there, where a specific staff member/manager/owner is 'expected' to be available 24/7? Seriously?
As a responsible dive pro, he probably keeps his phone on 24/7 in case of EMERGENCIES. Outside of that, calling a personal (not work) number is just unreasonable - any reasonable human being can understand that.
Politely get rid of the 'human mosquito' and carry on enjoying life for the evening.
Lying and manipulating to do so.
I think you need to re-read the thread. Comprehension fail.
Personally, I think he's a champion.
OP
Thanks all for your comments. I appreciate the input. As to calling "after hours" - the taxi cab driver that inissted he knew the address left me off at the wrong divecenter. When I called the receptionist, he could not direct me to the divecenter either, nor did he know anything about the diving activity .So yes, I would insist to talk to the manager before leaving my full payment for the five days.
The excuses he has listed in his email were not given to me on the phone.
Is it best to be a customer held hostage or stay in control? You decide. Somehow I don't think I would have gotten a refund from that manager for any mishaps.
And one last note. We have a question on our job application - As you have left the dive store for the day, you have a customer contact you interested in your shop and diving. What would you do?
It is quite natural for us to answer the question with "Thank the customer for their interest. welcome the customer and answer as many questions as you can, ideally taking them back in. Scheduling an appointment is second best"
The excuses he has listed in his email were not given to me on the phone.
Is it best to be a customer held hostage or stay in control? You decide. Somehow I don't think I would have gotten a refund from that manager for any mishaps.
And one last note. We have a question on our job application - As you have left the dive store for the day, you have a customer contact you interested in your shop and diving. What would you do?
It is quite natural for us to answer the question with "Thank the customer for their interest. welcome the customer and answer as many questions as you can, ideally taking them back in. Scheduling an appointment is second best"
I think some readers may have missed this post from the manager himself, so there it is again. Seems to me he answered the original telephone call quite professionally indeed.
I am repeating myself here but: the manager was not upset he had an out-of-hours phone call, which he answered to the best of his ability, he was angry at the scathing review written on TripAdvisor for NO GOOD REASON. If it had been a justified, negative review of the dive centre based on bad experience or poor customer service, which the diver didn't receive, because he had no experience or customer service at all from the dive centre.
No it doesn't put good reviews into question, not at all, because any good reviews posted on TripAdvisor are made independently by customers, not paid minions - and the more I follow this thread the more I realise that the Internet outs a lot of other unpleasantess as well. I have never officially held the title "Dive Centre Manager", but I have managed a dive centre - and most of us are hardly new to this. There are a lot of long-term diving related professionals in Egypt, mostly from a generation that grew up discovering the early Internet in their teens, and to have survived in this country for any length of time shows a company that must by default have provided quality service and customer care, and appreciates the importance of their Internet presence... because it wouldn't be here otherwise, especially after a slow year like the last.
None of us can pretend that we're not aware of the risks of a complaint being made against us and we take negative reviews very personally, actually, because our whole existence revolves around providing good customer service - that's the only way we can continue to enjoy what we love to do. Many complaints are borderline ridiculous but we know exactly how to handle each and every one of them, and one of my former managers was so good at dealing with complaints that people would actually walk away smiling.
And as for juggling the personal and professional, well, I'm sure many accountants do not really "love" their job, but go and earn a crust from 9-5, then come home, switch off the number-crunching, go play sports, have dinner with the wife, watch a movie, maybe even go diving, without a calculator permanently to hand. I think most of us here in Egypt can never really switch off the diving, because it's more a way of life than a job. Get a bunch of instructors together out-of-uniform and guess what a lot of the conversation will be about!? We do occasionally talk about other things, such as good books, movies or old BBC TV comedy series but most of it comes back to diving in the end. I think that pretty much justifies why the manager reacted so angrily - or perhaps a better way of putting it would be - passionately - about a potentially damaging unjustified complaint. At this particular time in Egypt, a downturn in business could lead - and has led - to the loss of that whole way of life, not just the 9 - 5 part of it.
As always, more waffle than I intended but my customer cancelled today so I'm already back at home losing another day's pay. I'm not angry at this at all, such is the way of life, but it is frustrating sometimes. I know I'm repeating myself again but I fully understand Paul's reaction and I can't say that I wouldn't do the same thing.
Will pop in next time I make it up to Dahab- and we'll review the bar together
Cheers
C.
Everybody has seen the email sent by me to the OP after he posted his review on TripAdvisor, but what you haven’t seen is his reply.
I think that you can see by his reply it was never his intention to write an honest review of the resort and dive centre but a malicious attempt to damage my business, not just through TripAvisor, but also by using this and other forums.
The OP's Reply .....
[FONT="]Dear Paul, you will be pleased to hear that the tripadvisor entry was
removed by myself, for editing, due to a spelling error. No need to
worry, it will be up soon enough.
The professionalism and politeness of your last email has encouraged
me to post this incident to further boards. Kindly continue your
conversation with me there, in the public forum, so as all can see
your customer service prowess.
As for a meeting face to face, I will be coming back to Dahab in the
next few months, so if you still find yourself at the resort after all
of this, feel free to comment on one of the many online outlets this
will be discussed, and I am sure we can arrange a friendly workout at
the local boxing gym.
I will not be replying to any of your emails further, but do please
stay in touch. A google search shall keep you updated on further
reviews soon enough.
[/FONT]
His email not only suggests that after he posted his comments on the forums that I may lose my job, but also challenges me to a boxing match in a local gym.
His intentions were never professional, they are personal….
All based on a two minute phone call made after hours.
[FONT="]
[/FONT] This was my reply ..
Dear Alex,
Thank you for your reply.
Please allow me to clarify a couple of points. Firstly, you were never a customer of mine and therefore have astutely no grounds by which to comment on my "customer service prowess" except perhaps for the two emails I sent you with prices and from what I read in your replies you were very happy. Secondly, don't you think it is a little bit Neanderthal to challenge me to a boxing match in a local gym?
You seem rather confrontational with your gym, boxing and public forums but sorry but I won’t be taking part in any of them.
Last but not least it is my opinion that if one is to offer a review of any value on anything one must first have some experience or actual knowledge of the subject in question.
You made comments on Red Sea Relax and myself based on a 1 minute conversation you had with me after the dive centre was closed.
I am very sorry that there was something that you found so important that it couldn't wait until 08;30 the following morning when the dive centre would have been open.
I am sure you are aware that every business has opening hours.
I have a life and consider family time a very important part of it, so when I finish work after a ten hour day my working day is over.
I have lived in Dahab for eleven years and dont have any plans to leave so hopefully we will have a chance to continue this conversation then. Until then, have a wonderful life, enjoy your diving and good luck with your public forums but please make sure you have some knowledge of your subject matter.
Regards,
Paul.
................................
I would like to comment on a couple of points the OP made in his last post .
1. He said that his taxi driver could not find the dive centre, but he was standing in the hotel reception when he insisted the reception manager called me at home.
2. He said that he didn't want to be held hostage by the dive centre after paying for a 5 day dive package ..At no time was the OP asked to pay a penny .He was not even asked for a deposit when he booked the dives .
3. As far as not being able to find the dive centre, it is 30 paces from the hotel reception.
In closing thanks for all the input.
Crowley!!!! I look forward to reviewing the bar with you next time you are in Dahab...The first one is on me !!
P.
I think that you can see by his reply it was never his intention to write an honest review of the resort and dive centre but a malicious attempt to damage my business, not just through TripAvisor, but also by using this and other forums.
The OP's Reply .....
[FONT="]Dear Paul, you will be pleased to hear that the tripadvisor entry was
removed by myself, for editing, due to a spelling error. No need to
worry, it will be up soon enough.
The professionalism and politeness of your last email has encouraged
me to post this incident to further boards. Kindly continue your
conversation with me there, in the public forum, so as all can see
your customer service prowess.
As for a meeting face to face, I will be coming back to Dahab in the
next few months, so if you still find yourself at the resort after all
of this, feel free to comment on one of the many online outlets this
will be discussed, and I am sure we can arrange a friendly workout at
the local boxing gym.
I will not be replying to any of your emails further, but do please
stay in touch. A google search shall keep you updated on further
reviews soon enough.
[/FONT]
His email not only suggests that after he posted his comments on the forums that I may lose my job, but also challenges me to a boxing match in a local gym.
His intentions were never professional, they are personal….
All based on a two minute phone call made after hours.
[FONT="]
[/FONT] This was my reply ..
Dear Alex,
Thank you for your reply.
Please allow me to clarify a couple of points. Firstly, you were never a customer of mine and therefore have astutely no grounds by which to comment on my "customer service prowess" except perhaps for the two emails I sent you with prices and from what I read in your replies you were very happy. Secondly, don't you think it is a little bit Neanderthal to challenge me to a boxing match in a local gym?
You seem rather confrontational with your gym, boxing and public forums but sorry but I won’t be taking part in any of them.
Last but not least it is my opinion that if one is to offer a review of any value on anything one must first have some experience or actual knowledge of the subject in question.
You made comments on Red Sea Relax and myself based on a 1 minute conversation you had with me after the dive centre was closed.
I am very sorry that there was something that you found so important that it couldn't wait until 08;30 the following morning when the dive centre would have been open.
I am sure you are aware that every business has opening hours.
I have a life and consider family time a very important part of it, so when I finish work after a ten hour day my working day is over.
I have lived in Dahab for eleven years and dont have any plans to leave so hopefully we will have a chance to continue this conversation then. Until then, have a wonderful life, enjoy your diving and good luck with your public forums but please make sure you have some knowledge of your subject matter.
Regards,
Paul.
................................
I would like to comment on a couple of points the OP made in his last post .
1. He said that his taxi driver could not find the dive centre, but he was standing in the hotel reception when he insisted the reception manager called me at home.
2. He said that he didn't want to be held hostage by the dive centre after paying for a 5 day dive package ..At no time was the OP asked to pay a penny .He was not even asked for a deposit when he booked the dives .
3. As far as not being able to find the dive centre, it is 30 paces from the hotel reception.
In closing thanks for all the input.
Crowley!!!! I look forward to reviewing the bar with you next time you are in Dahab...The first one is on me !!
P.
Similar threads
