Want BP/W. Would like advice/feedback

[cmburch]

California Kelp diver. I use a TransPlate with a 40lb Oxycheq Mach V Extreme. Got it all on sale. Great for hiking our coastal cliff trails to the better dive spots. The chest strap is just like a backpack's for hiking, to position the shoulder straps comfortably. I like the left shoulder strap quick release. My bad shoulder is only good for avoiding the body security scan at the airport. The D-rings are optional so is the padding (shoulder strap sleeves, lower back pad, crotch strap sleeve) is optional. I used one of the shoulder folding angled D-rings on my waist belt to clip my fish stringer to. I am a cold water diver. The stainless steel backplate gets the weight over my lung area for better trim. The stainless STA adds weight and also locks the tank in place. I feel more secure when hiking. Less sway and better control for less pulling away from cliff face when hiking. More weight on my Rig also means less weight on my belt. I have large shoulders from swimming with a 52" coat size, 6' 220lb and use an XL TransPlate.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I would argue a lightweight plate, Aluminum or Kydex, is a better alternative to stainless steel if one was to have only one plate and also works for both cold water and warm water. In fact, many NorCal divers I know have moved to an aluminum plate, even with thick, thinsulate undergarments, due to the fact that it allows them more flexibility to adjust the location of weight on their rig.

And for warm water diving, having 3-4lbs of extra capacity in the suitcase is a big deal, and traveling around Asia, where 25lbs is a common limit for baggage, often a necessity. And it's easy to put a 3-4 lb weight on the harness, can light side, or up on a camband, depending on where you need it.

Having equipped thousands of divers worldwide, and many divers who dive in cold water at home and travel to warm water I have no doubt that a SS plate is a better choice for those who wish to use a single plate.

Rare is the cold water diver in a drysuit with heavy undergarments that needs no ballast in addition to their plate, cylinder(s), reg(s) and canlight, even if they are using a SS plate. This additional ballast can be positioned as needed.

A diver using a 3mm wetsuit and buoyant al 80, pretty typical for tropical diving, needs about 8 lbs of ballast. A SS plate, harness and regulator provides about 8 lbs of ballast, and this ballast is positioned over the divers buoyant lungs and along the buoyant cylinder. Lightweight plates + a weight belt can make horizontal trim difficult.

Tobin

 

[uberdude]

nfarrar,
I have recently gone through the process of purchasing the exact set up you are talking about. I went with the Hollis Solo with 25lb single tank wing (and dive rite single tank adapter) , and 45lb double tank wing. Dive Rite Trans ended up last on my list because of all the plastic, it was more BC than BP/Wing.

I made some comments on a similar thread you might find interesting here's the link.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cave-diving/400147-rookie-curiosity-here-6.html#post6159592

now to take part of what I said from the other thread

" 5. I agree with the DSS BP&W if I could have afforded it I would have gone that path, but due to limited finances I didn't. After research and chats with my instructor I considered DSS, Hollis, DiveRite Transplate, HOG, Halcyon, Aqua Mundo and a couple others. Prices are all similar (DSS is more expensive but your paying for service and quality). I'm 6 ft, 180 lbs, I ended up going with my second choice (after DSS) a Hollis setup 25lb Single wing, and a 45 lb double, my research, shop help and my instructor said it would be more than enough for what I want to do. If you go DSS Tobin sort you out.

Gear wise do some research on prices etc (try Dive Gear Express to check out prices, whether you shop there or not it's great website). From what I see most dedicated Tech divers seem to collect lots of gear over time

so I'm sure I'll get to use DSS yet!

Think about whether you'll be traveling with gear. This is a consideration for BP material ie DSS Kydex Hybrid, Aluminum or Stainless Steel.

6.If you buy a BP&W you will probably get some form of pockets (BC's have pockets, BP&W usually don't) see the Hogarthian section for a thread on this Consider getting a single tank adaptor (possibly), and I would look at getting a Hogarthian harness, forget all the harnesses with plastic clips and do dad's. Personal opinion but I think a lot of people here would agree. See the discussion above about entanglement, streamline etc. If you seriously see your self going down the tech path, definite consideration. "

When I selected my gear 6 months ago I knew I was going to pursue tech diving. With help from my tech instructor I did lots of research See the other thread) I looked at the Transpac I didn't like the harness to much crap on it, like the Hollis elite range. I have to say I think those harnesses are produced to cure the divers who want a tech brand harness and back plate and are "hogarthian curious" and not able to give up on the ultra cool plastic BC look that dive manufactures brain wash the diving hordes with (just an opinion please don't diverge on the thread to argue this) .

What people are saying above is true. Having used a single piece hogarthian back plate strap, I'll never go back. Having put 50 or so dives on the new gear and done some basic tech courses, I can't fault the setup, actually I LOVE IT. The cool thing about the solo harness is if you want more D-rings buy them and put them on. HOWEVER that said you'll quickly work out 2 on each shoulder, one on each hip and one on the front and rear of the groin strap will be more than you'll even need. The Hollis solo set up comes with 2 shoulder pads that you thread on to the harness . But after diving the gear I don't think I'd miss them but they look nice. You'd be amazed how many times people on boats look at your gear and go wow because of the simplicity, more than one person asked where they could get one . Despite looking a bit uncomfortable before you try it, BP/Wing set ups are extremely comfortable, underwater. They give you a freedom of movement you won't find in a BC.

I went with Hollis for several reasons : Recommendation, personal research, Tech Instructor assistance ( he looked at my 3 favorite options), price (what I really wanted was slightly out of my price range - DSS). Keep in mind I had to order over the internet as where I live there are no shops or displays.

If you go with Dive Rite go with the basic harness (my opinion forget the deluxe and quick release) see below:
Backplate, Harness and Wing Systems (BPW) by Dive Rite - Dive Gear Express

Similar Hollis set up is here:
Backplate, Harness and Wing Systems (BPW) by Hollis - Dive Gear Express

Some other points:
I travel I went with aluminium. SS wasn't an option because of this.

Yes you will need 2 different wings one for doubles, one for singles. I would defer to coolhardware52 (Tobin from DSS I believe) here, this is his bread and butter. Personally I went with 25lb single, 45lb double based on instructor recommendation. Your 270lbs, I'm 180 ish pounds, I'm not sure how that will affect you. Keep in mind in warm salt water, I was diving a 3m wetsuit with 2 kg (4lb) of weight for trim and barely had any air in the wing, so there was still massive lift capacity and I was actually to lite!


Sorry for the long explaination, you did ask for opinion! I will point out I am new (less than 200 dives) compared to many of the respected posters above, but we're all singing from the same prayer book.
All the best, good luck!

 

[nfarrar]

nfarrar,
I have recently gone through the process of purchasing the exact set up you are talking about. I went with the Hollis Solo with 25lb single tank wing (and dive rite single tank adapter) , and 45lb double tank wing. Dive Rite Trans ended up last on my list because of all the plastic, it was more BC than BP/Wing.

I made some comments on a similar thread you might find interesting here's the link.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cave-diving/400147-rookie-curiosity-here-6.html#post6159592

now to take part of what I said from the other thread

" 5. I agree with the DSS BP&W if I could have afforded it I would have gone that path, but due to limited finances I didn't. After research and chats with my instructor I considered DSS, Hollis, DiveRite Transplate, HOG, Halcyon, Aqua Mundo and a couple others. Prices are all similar (DSS is more expensive but your paying for service and quality). I'm 6 ft, 180 lbs, I ended up going with my second choice (after DSS) a Hollis setup 25lb Single wing, and a 45 lb double, my research, shop help and my instructor said it would be more than enough for what I want to do. If you go DSS Tobin sort you out.

Gear wise do some research on prices etc (try Dive Gear Express to check out prices, whether you shop there or not it's great website). From what I see most dedicated Tech divers seem to collect lots of gear over time so I'm sure I'll get to use DSS yet!

Think about whether you'll be traveling with gear. This is a consideration for BP material ie DSS Kydex Hybrid, Aluminum or Stainless Steel.

6.If you buy a BP&W you will probably get some form of pockets (BC's have pockets, BP&W usually don't) see the Hogarthian section for a thread on this Consider getting a single tank adaptor (possibly), and I would look at getting a Hogarthian harness, forget all the harnesses with plastic clips and do dad's. Personal opinion but I think a lot of people here would agree. See the discussion above about entanglement, streamline etc. If you seriously see your self going down the tech path, definite consideration. "

When I selected my gear 6 months ago I knew I was going to pursue tech diving. With help from my tech instructor I did lots of research See the other thread) I looked at the Transpac I didn't like the harness to much crap on it, like the Hollis elite range. I have to say I think those harnesses are produced to cure the divers who want a tech brand harness and back plate and are "hogarthian curious" and not able to give up on the ultra cool plastic BC look that dive manufactures brain wash the diving hordes with (just an opinion please don't diverge on the thread to argue this) .

What people are saying above is true. Having used a single piece hogarthian back plate strap, I'll never go back. Having put 50 or so dives on the new gear and done some basic tech courses, I can't fault the setup, actually I LOVE IT. The cool thing about the solo harness is if you want more D-rings buy them and put them on. HOWEVER that said you'll quickly work out 2 on each shoulder, one on each hip and one on the front and rear of the groin strap will be more than you'll even need. The Hollis solo set up comes with 2 shoulder pads that you thread on to the harness . But after diving the gear I don't think I'd miss them but they look nice. You'd be amazed how many times people on boats look at your gear and go wow because of the simplicity, more than one person asked where they could get one . Despite looking a bit uncomfortable before you try it, BP/Wing set ups are extremely comfortable, underwater. They give you a freedom of movement you won't find in a BC.

I went with Hollis for several reasons : Recommendation, personal research, Tech Instructor assistance ( he looked at my 3 favorite options), price (what I really wanted was slightly out of my price range - DSS). Keep in mind I had to order over the internet as where I live there are no shops or displays.

If you go with Dive Rite go with the basic harness (my opinion forget the deluxe and quick release) see below:
Backplate, Harness and Wing Systems (BPW) by Dive Rite - Dive Gear Express

Similar Hollis set up is here:
Backplate, Harness and Wing Systems (BPW) by Hollis - Dive Gear Express

Some other points:
I travel I went with aluminium. SS wasn't an option because of this.

Yes you will need 2 different wings one for doubles, one for singles. I would defer to coolhardware52 (Tobin from DSS I believe) here, this is his bread and butter. Personally I went with 25lb single, 45lb double based on instructor recommendation. Your 270lbs, I'm 180 ish pounds, I'm not sure how that will affect you. Keep in mind in warm salt water, I was diving a 3m wetsuit with 2 kg (4lb) of weight for trim and barely had any air in the wing, so there was still massive lift capacity and I was actually to lite!


Sorry for the long explaination, you did ask for opinion! I will point out I am new (less than 200 dives) compared to many of the respected posters above, but we're all singing from the same prayer book.
All the best, good luck!

Thank you for sharing your experience. It is very helpful!

Thx mon,
Nick

 

[ddmattos]

I have also looked at the Hollis Elite 2 and Solo. I know a lot of people end it a up with a basic harness. I "think" I want the extra padding and like the extra D rings. What are the pluses and minuses of the Dive Rite and Hollis rigs? For now I will be diving singles. I want to try out doubles and side mounts later this year. Most of my diving is split between the Cayman Islands and Louisiana/Arkansas area lakes. So some warm water and some wet suit. Im 6'3" and 270+. With a steel plate what size wing do I need for singles? Can I use just one or do I need one for warm water and one for cold? I know I will need another with doubles. Please get me started on the right path.


Thanks Mon,
Nick

I wanted one rig for all my diving needs ( water temps +80's F of the Med/Caribbean to low 40's F of New Jersey). I choose the Hollis Solo, SS Backplate, 38lbs singles wing, Weighted STA with removable -6lbs insert. This gives me a range of -6lbs to -22lbs. The solo comes with small shoulder pads that are very dense and thin. I have found they do not make much of a difference weight wise but they are removable. I appreciate them when walking with my double 119's. The d-rings are a little thicker than the Halcyon hardware (trivial to some). The extra d-rings aren't needed. One per shoulder and one on the waist is all you need for basic or advanced diving. I dive with one on each side of my waist though. I went with the larger 38lbs wing because I dive both warm and cold water and sometimes have to get out of my rig to get into smaller boats. I also sling a 40CF stage and can light (when needed). I wanted to be sure the wing can float all my gear plus a steel tank. With that said, I always dive dry (Santi E-Lite) with Fourth Element undergarment system and have found I needed 6lbs -8lbs in warm water and 12lbs-18lbs in vary cold water.

As you stated, "

I know a lot of people end it a up with a basic harness." Why not start there?​

Keep it simple. Having multiple d-rings can really clutter up your chest area and entrap item below the upper d-ring and vice-versa.​

If you dial in your setup from the start moving on to more advanced diving will be a natural progression. Your basic rig will stay the same.

As I moved to doubles (119s) I purchased a Hollis C60 wing after comparing it to the Halcyon Evolve. Very similar in every way.

I love the flexibility of my rig which I take on all my vacations and look forward to diving it anywhere.

Hope this helps.

Darren

​

 

[Peter_C]

After quickly realizing my expensive Knight Hawk was junk, I got a stainless Freedom Plate for single tank diving. Then when I switched to doubles I started using a Dive Rite stainless plate. That was short lived as I had too much weight up towards my head, so I switched to a Dive Rite Aluminum plate.

My single tank back plate for warm and cold water diving is a Freedom Plate with a Mach V 40lb wing (Most everyone only needs a 30lb wing). My Freedom Plate has a 6lb lead insert for when I am cold water diving. The only time I use the aluminum plate is when diving doubles. Otherwise it is kinda a stupid design, and not nearly as comfortable as the Freedom Plate.

If I was looking to buy a kit today I would just get one of these in stainless, with a basic harness. BackPlate and Wing Package discounts on sale Dive Rite

 

[rlynch]

the steel vs ALuminium decision to me is based solely on what tanks you are using for what.
For me Steel for everything except Doubles in the lp104 + range which i use the AL plate for.

I can still swim up 104s in a steel plate for my full kit on, its just not optimal

 

[Rhone Man]

We need a sticky on this subject. I'd suggest Tobin for the role, but that might appear self serving on his part.

:focus:

 

[SCU5]

Personally, I've never had any difficulty adding 3-4 lbs to an aluminum plate, have you? Putting a few lbs on a camband or waist-strap of the harness can even be done without pockets or extra equipment.

Doubles leave a lot of divers top heavy, so in some cases it's easier to move more weight lower, via a v-weight or weight belt. Maybe to you having 3-4 lbs lower on your rig doesn't make a difference but to some divers it does.

I have traveled around SE Asia for diving, have you? Have you had to deal with the weight restrictions over there on flights? Even meeting 50lb limits on domestic flights is pretty difficult.

I guess you have your opinion, respectfully, I think others are entitled to theirs.

Having equipped thousands of divers worldwide, and many divers who dive in cold water at home and travel to warm water I have no doubt that a SS plate is a better choice for those who wish to use a single plate.

Rare is the cold water diver in a drysuit with heavy undergarments that needs no ballast in addition to their plate, cylinder(s), reg(s) and canlight, even if they are using a SS plate. This additional ballast can be positioned as needed.

A diver using a 3mm wetsuit and buoyant al 80, pretty typical for tropical diving, needs about 8 lbs of ballast. A SS plate, harness and regulator provides about 8 lbs of ballast, and this ballast is positioned over the divers buoyant lungs and along the buoyant cylinder. Lightweight plates + a weight belt can make horizontal trim difficult.

Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

Personally, I've never had any difficulty adding 3-4 lbs to an aluminum plate, have you? Putting a few lbs on a camband or waist-strap of the harness can even be done without pockets or extra equipment.

Weight on a waist strap may or may not be where you need it for trim, and I'm not a huge fan of adding weight on cambands. Weight on cambands can impact how a wing inflates, and it increases the risk of damaging the wing. Keeping mass down against the divers back is a good thing. Raising the CG is not beneficial.

Doubles leave a lot of divers top heavy, so in some cases it's easier to move more weight lower, via a v-weight or weight belt. Maybe to you having 3-4 lbs lower on your rig doesn't make a difference but to some divers it does.

Quite true, and I'm very careful when making a recommendation for doubles regarding the required ballast and wing shape. The reason why DSS developed lightweight plates is for divers in doubles that might be overweighted using a SS plate. Cylinders used, exposure suit used, whether or not the diver might be personally buoyant all play a part.

Many of our customers do express some interest in diving doubles in the future, and many think they want a wing and plate that can be used for both. The reality is the jump to doubles is huge in terms of cost, if you are going to use doubles to their full advantage. A couple sets of doubles, minumum, 2-4 6 deco bottles, 1/2 dozen sets of regs, stage kits, argon bottles and regs, can lights, drysuit and 2-3 sets of undies, computer, training, gas, etc. etc. $5K-10K easy. A second plate, and wing is small fraction of that $10K

Compromising a single tank rig because you think you know what you'll need for doubles you may never dive never made good sense to me. Many can use the same plate for singles and doubles, some are better off with something different. Many divers moving to doubles will choose to buy a second plate simply because they want to maintain a single rig.

I have traveled around SE Asia for diving, have you? Have you had to deal with the weight restrictions over there on flights? Even meeting 50lb limits on domestic flights is pretty difficult.

One need not travel to any specific location in order to be able to read a scale. The OP said nothing of travel to SEA either.

I've always provided the same advice; the SS plate is likely to provide a better in water experience, the "cost" is about 3 lbs great dry travel weight.

Some see this travel weight as vitally important, others place greater value on the in water performance.

I guess you have your opinion, respectfully, I think others are entitled to theirs.

What have I done to deprive you of your opinion?

Tobin