Scubamax regulator vs Apeks. Huge difference in price...what about quality?

[ScubaERDoc]

So I was all set to buy my Apeks XTX50 DST-Status for $400 when one of my partners at my hospital told me to check out another LDS which has a cult-like status in my area (esp in Berkeley) and a reputation for selling good quality gear at low prices. There I was shown a ScubaMax FG-02OS first stage and OT-9xAS second stage set for $250. Was told that this regulator is considered to be high-end and manufactured by the same Taiwan plant which makes components for more established brands. Specifically the first stage is a balanced diaphragm which is supposed to be identical to an Oceanic model and the balanced second stage is supposed to be essentially the same as the Apeks XTX50. Also, this LDS does free servicing for Scubamax.

Obviously the difference in price is completely astronomical. I fact, I can get a octo and gauges for this for around $400 total. Doing a little research I have found only one useful thread regarding Scubamax regs. Is the price difference a matter of branding or is there really any performance/engineering difference? I would feel like a sucker to get expensive gear just for the brand name. It is apparent that in the dive gear industry, branding is a big deal. But at the same time, the only piece of equipment that I definitely want to get the best quality for is my regulator. I would definitely pay more for Apeks/SP if the regs were truly better performance and more reliable. Any comparative experiences?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Doc, what you are going to find with a Scubamax reg is a reg that is of good quality, maybe less features than a ScubaPro or Apeks, but for the average recreational diver they would not be able to tell the difference in performance if the reg is well tuned. Seriously. What you may find though is that some shops will not service the reg saying they cannot get parts. But if a shop sells scubmax regs and offers free servicing I say go for it!

They are not lying when they say that they are made by the OEM for many different brands. Now the different companies may have some slight engineering and cosmetic differences that they specify but the truth is no reg is junk. With the quick to sue atmosphere we live in today no company can afford to put out a product that is unsafe. Also Scubamax does not spend a fortune on flashy ads and expensive packaging.

I sell HOG and Edge Gear. Edge does not spend a fortune on flashy ads in magazines and expensive packaging. The owner prefers to concentrate on quality and innovation and giving divers what they need at a fair price. We even offer a course for divers with the proper certs to service their own regs in the HOG line that are geared towards technical divers. Edge regs should be serviced by a dealer and the network is getting bigger all the time and I have customers send me their regs for service and inspection.

Reliability is not guaranteed by a name. It is a product of how good your tech is and how good the parts used are. In addition you play the biggest role in the reliability of your equipment. The greatest tech in the world working on your regs means nothing if you do not do your part and properly rinse and store them. And there is your responsibility to make sure the tech doing them does indeed know what he or she is doing. That they work for a shop is no guarantee. A tech should be willing to take the reg he just did for you and go dive it without hesitation.

If this shop comes with good recommendations it pays to listen to them. They are not popular on price alone. Price means nothing if quality and service suck.

 

[dgreenh]

All of my training regs are Scubamax, I have 10 sets. No one beats up equipment like open water students and these regs have come through class after class and worked flawlessly for 5 years. I rebuild them yearly and rinse them properly after each class but that is standard treatment for most all regulators. I have an Apeks ATX-200 set and I can't tell if one really breathes better than the other. I don't do any extreme diving so I don't know if there would be a difference in that arena. I have had these regs down to 120' with no performance problems. Jim is experienced and correct in his post. Brand name is a lot of the price difference in equipment. You might want to check out the HOG/Edge line as well while you are shopping.

 

[j2s]

You've probably seen my posts about being a long time Apeks user and then switching to HOG [and very happy about the switch]....Definitely give HOG consideration....It's not just price, it's everything...Quality, port configuration, parts, self-maintenance and product support.........I use my equipment hard, HP doubles, long dives, depth, caves, deco etc. and have not had one problem......

 

[Centrals]

Have been diving the same Apeks (DS4) for about 14 yrs on deep air, trimix, wreck etc. Never encountered any problem whatsoever. I even learnt how to serivce it. No intention to replace it.
If I am in the market looking for a reg, I will look for something which is "popular" ie. spare parts and service are readily available.

Think about that. What about if you move to an location where Scubamax is NOT represented?

 

[ScubaERDoc]

Thanks for the input.

It seems like the advantages to the Scubamax regs are that the offer units which are supposedly machined by the same OEM as more expensive brands at a much lower cost, due to lack of marketing/branding. Also this particular LDS will service them for free. As well, given the high standards of all regulator manufactures, it seems unlikely that this brand, although not as well known as Apeks, is unlikely to be produced by the same dudes that made that North Korean rocket which just broke up today

The disadvantages appear to be that this brand seems to not be as well known in the dive community, and among the internet community. This gives the appearance, whether real or not, that they are not as "vetted" as the extensively tested (albeit, testing methods may be suspect) Scubapro or Apeks regs. Also, although my LDS services them, Apeks and Scubapro seem be be more widely used and likely serviced in places that I will travel to.

This reminds me of when I was a child and I visited my relatives in Taiwan. I wanted a new Nintendo but got a Japanese "Famicon" which was essentially the same unit made to a different standard. When my Famicon finally broke in America, I really wished I had a normal Nintendo to replace those Asian parts.

I think I will skip the Scubamax and instead get either the Apeks model on sale, or look into HOGS, as it appears that HOGS are widely admired and respected for quality/price ratio, with less of the unknown variables that Scubamax has

 

[Centrals]

HOG or HOLLIS but not the other H brand.

 

[keyshunter]

Thanks for the input.



The disadvantages appear to be that this brand seems to not be as well known in the dive community, and among the internet community. This gives the appearance, whether real or not, that they are not as "vetted" as the extensively tested (albeit, testing methods may be suspect) Scubapro or Apeks regs. Also, although my LDS services them, Apeks and Scubapro seem be be more widely used and likely serviced in places that I will travel to.


I think I will skip the Scubamax and instead get either the Apeks model on sale, or look into HOGS, as it appears that HOGS are widely admired and respected for quality/price ratio, with less of the unknown variables that Scubamax has

A prime consideration is WHERE you travels will take you. Although Hog regs seem to be excellent (they should be, since they, along with several others, are heavily copied from Apeks designs) their worldwide market penetration is quite small. But, they are priced low enough that you might consider using the savings toward a backup reg. Personally, even though I seldom have to use it, and there are often weight considerations, I never leave home without a backup reg.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I think I will skip the Scubamax and instead get either the Apeks model on sale, or look into HOGS, as it appears that HOGS are widely admired and respected for quality/price ratio, with less of the unknown variables that Scubamax has

I have a couple of Apeks reg setups (ATX100/ATX50/FST and XTX200/XTX50/FSR). I like 'em. They are well made, very reliable and breathe great. They're quite easy to learn how to DIY-service, too.
That being said, I would avoid purchasing any of the Apeks Status first stages. The Status indicator was a dumb feature to add to a scuba regulator. The electronic components just complicate servicing and don't offer any real advantage. If you want to know if the first stage is "OK," it's much better to use an old-fashioned i.p. gauge to test the i.p. the first stage is putting out. That's probably the reason that the Apeks Status is on sale. No one wants to buy it.

Within the XTX line, the Apeks second stages are all quite similar. There is no structural/performance difference among the XTX 50, 100, and 200 models. Perhaps your LDS would be willing to put together a comparable package consisting of a non-Status first stage. I'd go for a solid "value" package consisting of XTX 50/DST + XTX 50 octo.

HOG regs haven't been on the market very long...only a couple of years IIRC. Apeks regs have been on the market for a long time (decades). Looking forward, parts support is probably more secure with the more established manufacturer.
The HOG dealer network is small in comparison to that of Apeks/Aqualung. If your Apeks reg breaks while you are on a scuba vacation, there's a better chance that one of the nearby dive shops will have parts to fix your reg. The same cannot be said if you went with a HOG reg setup. This may or may not make a difference to you.

With respect to Scubamax...
Something else to consider is that, although Scubamax regs may come out of the same OEM as more expensive brands, Scubamax regs may use different materials with various tolerances. Small differences in specs can make a big difference in real world performance. Such manufacturing choices can certainly affect function and robustness of the end-product. I've never used or serviced any Scubamax regs, so, for all I know, they might be very good. However, I wouldn't form an impression on a reg based on what a salesman told me. After all, the salesman could be trying to steer you towards a product that puts more money in his pocket (paid on commission) or helps him achieve a sales goal.

 

[Fishpie]

There are at least half a dozen clones of Apeks regs made by the same OEM in Taiwan, some might be better than others but I have yet to see a bad one. Hollis and HOG are two that I own and use with no problems.
Says something about the quality of the Apeks design that it is so copied.