New (about to be) DM...keeping EFR in status?

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pixiefish

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Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
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Location
Koh Tao, Thailand
# of dives
200 - 499
Hullo wise people of scubaboard....

I'm about to qualify as a divemaster (PADI), and my EFR is within 24 months.... just!! So, when we sign the divemaster forms, it will be within 24 months. No problem. My question is, do I need to have it renewed as soon as it 'runs out', or before I renew my DM next year?

Basically, I'll probably be doing an IDC (and therefore EFRI) within the next 12 months anyway, I think, so if it only needs to be renewed before my PADI renewal is due then I'll have got the EFRI by then anyway, if it needs to be renewed on the dot of 24 months after I passed it, then I may go ahead and just do EFRI now anyway.

And yes I've asked a few instructors :) but received different answers, so wondering if anyone has a definite answer on this.

Thanks!
 
I've received different answers also. I BELIEVE your EFR must be at all times "in tact" to be a working DM. I'm not sure about EFRI as well. If you get this, do you have to teach an EFR class once every 2 years to keep active your DM? Or do some review or something with PADI online? I would like to eliminate the $90 every 2 years for EFR, but EFRI is irrelevant to me anyway if I'd have to actually teach it every 2 years as we have about 14 qualified Instructors to teach EFR maybe once or twice yearly and there are no other shops anywhere close, PADI or otherwise. Catch 22.
 
My understanding:

The First Aid certification as a prerequisite for either taking a course or submitting an application relates to a point in time. So if you have the valid cert when you need it, that's good. If it lapses afterward, it does not invalidate your course.

As a job requirement - that would be up to the organization or person offering the job. To be a "working DM" implies that there is someone offering a job, and they can make whatever requirements they want a condition of employment. I don't believe PADI has any requirement that says your First Aid qualifications must be up to date in order to maintain your status as a DM; no idea about other agencies.

If you are an EFRI, you must teach a class once every 24 months (or assist) to keep your EFRI status up to date. Nothing to do with your DM qualification.

TMHeimer, one could teach an EFR course once every two years to a family member, colleague, parents in your kids soccer league... no one says you need to make money off of it.

kari
 
My understanding:

The First Aid certification as a prerequisite for either taking a course or submitting an application relates to a point in time. So if you have the valid cert when you need it, that's good. If it lapses afterward, it does not invalidate your course.

As a job requirement - that would be up to the organization or person offering the job. To be a "working DM" implies that there is someone offering a job, and they can make whatever requirements they want a condition of employment. I don't believe PADI has any requirement that says your First Aid qualifications must be up to date in order to maintain your status as a DM; no idea about other agencies.

If you are an EFRI, you must teach a class once every 24 months (or assist) to keep your EFRI status up to date. Nothing to do with your DM qualification.

TMHeimer, one could teach an EFR course once every two years to a family member, colleague, parents in your kids soccer league... no one says you need to make money off of it.

kari
You could be right about no PADI requirement to continue to be a working DM. I thought you did need renewed EFR.. You are probably also correct in that each shop sets it's own requirement. Your idea of an ERFI teaching a course to a family member, etc. with no pay is interesting, if allowable. I only care because it's another $90 and $50 gas for me every 2 years to watch a video and work on the dummy. I study a page of that old EFR manual daily for about 30 secs., so I feel the stuff is always on the tip of my tongue. To be thorough, I feel a written test should occasionally be done--that plus the dummy may cost $20 worth of an instructor's time?
 
TMHeimer,

EFR is now recognized in all Provinces in Canada for workplace FA. I do all the "FA" courses for the company I used to work for. I just borrow the teaching materials from the Shop I work through and buy the manuals and PICs from them. Why not branch out teach some EFR classes in other venues? I would bet there are not many sources for FA training in your area.

Why would you not think teaching a course to a family member or not charging for a course would not be allowed?

Bill
 
TMHeimer,

EFR is now recognized in all Provinces in Canada for workplace FA. I do all the "FA" courses for the company I used to work for. I just borrow the teaching materials from the Shop I work through and buy the manuals and PICs from them. Why not branch out teach some EFR classes in other venues? I would bet there are not many sources for FA training in your area.

Why would you not think teaching a course to a family member or not charging for a course would not be allowed?

Bill


You're also probably right. I have to be honest--I really have no desire to teach EFR. I'm just looking for a way to not have to spend the course/gas money taking it, as I live in the boonies. I have posted a while ago about the lack of usefullness of the present course, but that's an old discussion--though I should add that the last time I took CPR it was with Saint John Ambulance. This full day course (for less $) covered a lot more than the EFR, but the we students all answered the final test outloud together... Regarding teaching a course to a family member, I would question whether PADI or my LDS would consider that legit. Being a native of NYC, my pessimistic views at times cause me to figure that someone would not really do this and get their family member to vouch for them that they did. My wife knows CPR as a lifeguard years ago and has performed it--I could nevertheless teach EFR to her....
 
I've received different answers also. I BELIEVE your EFR must be at all times "in tact" to be a working DM. I'm not sure about EFRI as well. If you get this, do you have to teach an EFR class once every 2 years to keep active your DM? Or do some review or something with PADI online? I would like to eliminate the $90 every 2 years for EFR, but EFRI is irrelevant to me anyway if I'd have to actually teach it every 2 years as we have about 14 qualified Instructors to teach EFR maybe once or twice yearly and there are no other shops anywhere close, PADI or otherwise. Catch 22.

1. where is the requirement by PADI to have a current EFI? mine has run out mid membership although I'm not working as a DM I would like to know if there is a legal/liability issue here. as far as I've read PADI are (surprisingly) very weak in their requirements here.
2. talk to your employer about becomming a first aid officer, or even just ask them if they'll pay for your course. I'm assuming you're not a full time DM, especially in Nova Scotia!
 
1. where is the requirement by PADI to have a current EFI? mine has run out mid membership although I'm not working as a DM I would like to know if there is a legal/liability issue here. as far as I've read PADI are (surprisingly) very weak in their requirements here.
2. talk to your employer about becomming a first aid officer, or even just ask them if they'll pay for your course. I'm assuming you're not a full time DM, especially in Nova Scotia!

No, I'm not "full time" and interning OW classes to get on staff, hopefully soon. Yes, PADI is weak, as you say RE EFR. First Aid Officer: basically ONE LDS in all of Atlantic Canada. I doubt the owner will pay for me taking a course. He teaches it himself.

Crap, all this EFR stuff sems to be stupid anyway. My wife's throat closed up in Jan. when we were in Mississippi. That is what matters.
 
I'm not sure why "PADI is weak" re EFR. It's a course requirement. PADI is a training agency. PADI is not the job police. If some employer wants to make current EFR status (and many do) a job requirement, then good on them. It has nothing to do with PADI.

As for teaching family members and whether or not it's "legit" that really would have to do with the instructor. Why would you assume that instructors would offer something less than their very best to their family? Handing out CPR certifications to the people who could save YOUR life, rather than actually teaching them the course doesn't seem to make sense. Maybe it's just me.
 
Himm seem to have lost my reply!

So it seems that as far as PADI are concerned, EFR only has to be in date at certification and at renewal. Your EFR also has to be in date to do the EFRI course.

As far as my own situation goes, we've just realised that you do NOT have to already be a certified DM to undertake the EFRI, an illusion we had be labouring under, so I'm going to go ahead and do EFRI now before my EFR runs out, thus killing many birds with one stone and minimising costs for me (in the long run!).
 
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