Article: Inconsistent message to new divers

[SanFranDiver]

My OW third certification dive was to 68'. The DI would signal 'follow me' then get 25-50 yards ahead of me, infrequently looking back to see how I was doing. And this was a US PADI instructor, not a third-worlder 'dive-in-a-day' operation.

 

[Rogersea]

i agree with just about everything you said. but i think what you are seeing is more of an internet message boardthing than a diver thing. the ananymity of the medium makes amazing hypocrits who often feel the need to expound on their expertise and everyone elses failures no matter what he subject. my ignore list is littered with them.

Concur! This is not a unique to scuba board, many internet forums enjoy the presence of arm chair experts... Here is to everyone diving safe and often!!!!!

Cheers,
Roger

 

[sheeper]

being one of "those" divers with 1,000 plus dives.....i generally agree with you! The vast majority of my dive knowledge came not from a cert course or a DM or an instructor. It came from diving with experienced divers. I learned the most by asking things like "why?", and "how?", and "When?", and "what?".
Your OW and AOW are only the first part of the journey. Other certs may or may not be part of that journey but the experience of diving and sharing with others is a constant part of that journey.
I enjoy diving with "newbies".....well as long as they are safe and willing to learn. I expect newbies to dive within their training and experience. Someday, they too will be a "old experienced" diver.
I've also dove with DMs and instructors that were worthless. Finding a good DM or instructor is kind of like finding a good doctor. Just having a bit of paper on the wall does not tell me if you are good...or if you are good for me.

So Cosmographer, enjoy your diving journey. And yes...if you come visit our little bit of paradise here on Florida's Treasure Coast, i'd even go diving with you!

 

[scubapro50]

I have been diving for over 40 years and seen many changes in the way divers get trained and certified. In the 60's we went down to the local YMCA and after 6 weeks of classes we received our card after a check out dive at a local lake. There wasn't much follow up by the shop or instructor unless they wanted to sell you something. Today it has changed and for the better. Everyone knows that pool training and lake diving is not the same as deep sea open water diving. As part of the training community we want every student not only to get the best instruction possible but the experence to handle problems as they arise. Honesty a lot of new divers just loose it while making their 1st saltwater dive in deepwater. Experience and common sence is the answer. I don't know how many times I had to go in and pull someone out because they forgot the basics. Additional training is always good but you still need someone to watch over you until you get your sealegs. I keep an eye on all divers around me just to be safe. It just takes one person to really mess up a great trip because they did something really dumb that they should have known better.

 

[firelaw]

Let's see. I've got 17 years diving, 250+ dives 61 years old.
1) check and recheck equipment every single time.
2) a new buddy is always a risk situation
3) keep checking yours and buddy's air until you are totally comfortable that you can predict consumption and actual consumption agrees with prediction.
4) every dive that is deeper or darker is a an extra risk situation.
5) if your buddy is 30 feet away you are both diving alone.

 

[scubapro50]

Let's see. I've got 17 years diving, 250+ dives 61 years old.
1) check and recheck equipment every single time.
2) a new buddy is always a risk situation
3) keep checking yours and buddy's air until you are totally comfortable that you can predict consumption and actual consumption agrees with prediction.
4) every dive that is deeper or darker is a an extra risk situation.
5) if your buddy is 30 feet away you are both diving alone.

To quote Rick Hunter : "It works for me".

---------- Post added ----------

In 1972 I received a "Deep Diver Certification" from a NASDS shop. After a couple of hours of classroom instruction I dove down a line in Lake Travis to retrieved a flag tied off at the 200ft level. I passed and got a nice certificate. Did it make me a better diver ..... no. Did it make the shop $100 richer .... yes. I still have that piece of paper somewhere around the house and today I wonder why I didn't see how dumb that stunt was.

 

[rick00001967]

very well thought out and well wrtten. i have not read all the following posts but will take the time to do so at a later date.
i believe in todays world, everything is about liability. no one wants it. most business (including dive ops) will always try to deflect the liability/responsibility to someone else to avoid legal action in the event of an accident or especially a death. this is the way it is and always will be.
it would be very difficult to try and decide who really is ultimately responsible for the safety of a "new diver". at first, we might say that it is always a divers responsibility to make sure they themselves are safe, and not participating on a dive that they are not ready for. and no matter what, they are responsible for themselves.....period. but that would not be the reality. many times i have been on a boat with divers that are clearly, and obviously not experienced or comfortable enough to be on those dives. even though they think they are. and if it is clear to me (as an unprofessional diver) then surely it is clear to the staff and or the crew of the dive op. in a case such as this, i believe the op must take at least partial responsibility if something goes wrong. after all, the very definition of negligence is allowing something to take place when it should be clear to you that something most likely will go wrong. as a paid proffessional, whos role it is to bring those paying customers on a dive. it is definetely your responsibility as the one "in charge" to prevent any diver from participating if you think (for any reason) they are not capable of safely completing the dive.
don't get me wrong. there will always be unforseeable circumstances that result in an injury or a death. but if a dive op knowingly takes someone to a site they are not qualified to be at. they should be held responsible in part, should something go wrong.
a "new diver" is just that......new, and inexperienced. they are paying for the services of a proffessional outfit to provide them with a reasonably safe and enjoyable experience. sometimes we need those proffessionals to use their knowledge and training to save a diver from themselves.
if a rookie diver seems to be well trained, comfortable in the water and has not shown the staff or crew a reason to doubt their abilities, then that dive op cannot be held responsible should something go wrong.
just a reminder to anyone here who is just starting out. NEVER, EVER, allow your self to be put in a situation that you are not comfortable. don't let the fear of shame or embarrassment keep you from asking questions or voicing your concerns. most dive crews are good people. they will be there to help in anyway they can. but they are not mind readers. they can't make informed decisions about dive planning if you don't give them the info they need to make those decisions. speak up !! if it feels wrong, don't do it !!

 

[coppergod]

well said. I think it's true that we are all responsible for ourselfs at the end of the day but if a DM / instructor can't identify that someone with 5 dives needs a little extra observation at first than someone with 500 dives regardless of certification then maybe we are trusting most of them a little too much. and all these "experts" with tons of dives maybe got to that number of dives only because nothing went wrong until they got to a level where they can now ,yes ,be at lower risk,although I do agree that open water is given a little too easily. .