Proper hose management when using pony bottles.

[-hh]

A front slung tank shouldn't be that intrusive - but there are cleaner options if prepared to experiment. It's possible to side-mount a pony - which'd put the tank parallel with your torso (valve below the armpit)... very clean, very unintrusive...all the benefits of a slung pony, none of the drawbacks of back-mounted.

It'd be a small DIY job to set-up, but once done... should work well. Combined with the other hose management suggestions made in the thread, would offer significant advantages over the current set-up.

There's a lot of things in life that "shouldn't be" ... but for certain segments, unfortunately are. Staying flat & level is easy, but for example when moving on to UW photography, the diver's position/orientation is secondary to where the camera needs to be put for a particular shot.

It has been quite awhile since I did my experimentation with various slung arrangements, so my recollections are somewhat fuzzy; I do recall that mounted under the arm could get in the way when 'tucking the arms in' (often a camera move), but I do recall that a bigger element which was that when going through various orientations for all three axis of freedom, a slung pony always had some freedom of motion such that it was able to shift ... sometimes 'suddenly' and sometimes 'far'. When oriented head-down inverted, it can be bad enough with wet-breathing regulators & mask flooding issues causing diver stress ... the fun doesn't need the addition of a slung bottle as a party crasher to fall "up" from the armpit tobash your regulator/mask/face. Sure, you can try to tighten up its harness, but makes it more restrictive in normal swimming modes. No Free Lunch.


-hh

 

[PfcAJ]

I have found that most air waste due to checking pressure in the pony is because of expansion of the HP hose.

Wat??

 

[yarik83]

I think it is very interesting how different people perceive same set of circumstances from different angles. Those of you that have been in my shoes so to speak know exactly why I raised my questions. I have been checking up on this thread since I wrote it and today's essay will be on my pony bottle.

I have bonica snapper hddv with 2 hander tray so my hands are ALWAYS extended forward, slightly bent and as much as I try to move my entire body with the shot, half the time it is just impossible due to reef formations or position of fish or how fish moves about. As such I frequently find myself moving arms from elbow to shoulder while maintaining my position and buoyancy. Having pony bottle under my armpit area was very uncomfortable because 1 elbow would always bump into it. When I moved my pony in all kinds of configurations while doing my lake dive (where I normally resolve most of my gear issues) I have come to a conclusion that one of the following was true:
#1 Pony always got in the way of the elbow
#2 When pony was out of way of elbow..pony always messed up my horizontal buoyancy resulting me in swimming at an angle against the horizon.

To any other diver who does not video tape... either inconvenience could have been resolved by adding weight to pony or adding more weight on side where pony was slung. But fact of the matter is that most divers I see do not dive with a camera so for them none of the issues I was facing would impact them.

Another factoid came from the fact that when I would clip my camera to BC... pony always bumped into camera somehow. Pony never sits in one place as you move about unless you permanently holster it to yourself, something I am not comfortable with.

Unfortunately since I made this thread I was not able to jump back in the water but trust me I will be swimming and filming again in no time. I never go more than a month without logging a few dives.

My solution to my problem so far:

My scuba shop still has not moved but once they do they will be throwing a sale. During that sale I plan to buy pressure gauge and a hose. That hose and that gauge will be streamlined against pony bottle's second stage hose. I have found some removable neoprene hose protectors online and in stores that will serve quite nicely. My current pony setup has to go, without a doubt and it will go towards assembly of my 2nd set of scuba gear. I will be buying safe second for it and a new BC. That way I will have 2 complete sets of gear. Only thing I would be missing would be a pair of booties that will be purchased also when the time comes.

My spare air will remain on my setup. A lot of you expressed concerns for redundant redundancy and your concerns are noted. Without a doubt in a normal scenario this is an overkill but I video tape and more than half the time people in my group do not stick around while I am video taping something. My dive buddy is always in sight but flag bearer is not so I constantly have to play catch up to the dive leader. Both spare air will allow me to ascend and finish full safety stop if and when necessary. I never dive deeper than 90 feet nor do I plan to increase my dive limits. I know for a fact that I can not make CESA from 60ft. Having redundant redundancy gives myself and my relatives redundant peace of mind. In time, I think my spare air will be sold in place of identical pony setup for my 2nd set of gear.

My hose situation has been resolved more or less. With proper routing, bungee cords, velcro straps and such I made everything semi-streamline and out of the way. I will be posting pictures after my next dive.

 

[shoredivr]

Yarik, lots of divers manage to dive with stage bottles and videotape things with no problem. Part of the issue may be where and how you are attaching the pony. This whole thing boggles me because I have dived with an AL80 stage on my left and videod things no problem. Maybe more practice will help.

*edit* Even if you decided to put a counterweight to offset the pony you'd put it on the other side of your body, not as you said, on the pony itself.*
Still unsure of why you'd want the spare air though.

 

[bj139]

Wat??

If you've never used an HP gauge without a hose you don't know what I mean. Without an HP hose, when you turn off the air and purge the reg, the pressure drops almost immediately. I was a bit confused by this at first until I realized the HP hose balloons slightly at 3000psi, while the LP hose does not expand as much at 135psi. The expanded hose acts as a reservoir, supplying gas to the LP side. I have >10 regs with HP hoses and they all act this way. All the dive shop regs from Discover Scuba classes do too. If you try a small gauge you will know what I mean. All my hoses and the dive shop hoses are not defective. They all do this.

If you don't believe me try this. Pressurize your reg then shut the tank off and count the number of breaths you can take. Take your HP hose off your reg and replace it with a plug. Do the test again. On my pony I get one breath with the button gauge (no HP hose) and about three with an HP hose attached. Seeing is believing.

Or connect your reg to a tank and before turning on the valve wrap your hand around the HP hose then turn on the valve. Sometimes feeling is believing. Why do you think the HP hose stiffens? Be careful trying this with other hoses. They may stiffen as well and show noticeable expansion.

 

[RJP]

My spare air will remain on my setup. A lot of you expressed concerns for redundant redundancy and your concerns are noted.

Having redundant redundancy gives myself and my relatives redundant peace of mind.

SpareAir + pony?

Great idea! That way you can run out of air TWICE on the same dive, and still have your pony available.

 

[Scott L]

The best pony rig I very saw, was a larger capacity primary cylinder.

 

[rlynch]

Here's what I would do....(note this not how I dive or would dive this is based on your gear as it is now, only)

Pony, use a stage rigging kit and sling the pony from my left side, 6" hp hose for a simple gauge only, reg on a 40" hose and stuffed in rubber bands. This makes it easy to get to and cleans it up. Attach to you bottom shoulder dring And at the left hip, if possible. I keep my bottles charged but off during the dive.

This also makes tank changes simpler with out dealing with the pony all the time.

Back up reg on right side, 36" or 40" hose.
Primary reg, 26" hose

Spare air if you think you can use the 2cuft it provides, attach low on the right.

1 console computer only, if you need a back up comp, use something else and mount it on your wrist, pocket, etc.

You could use an air2 in place of the BC inflator and eliminate the octo second stage as well.

For S fl drift dives you are going to be 60-100 feet deep. I would evaluate if the 19ft pony can bail you out with enough gas to reach the surface. Use 1 minute to I'd the problem and start to the surface for gas planning.

I'm all for redundancy but make sure you can use it.

 

[DuboisP]

like having redundancy especially after blowing O-rings for a number of dives.

use DIN regulators
never lost or changed an O-ring in 7 years, and i have now 6 DIN regulators

 

[Gilldiver]

Besides the hoses all over the place, which are an entanglement hazard, and just makes you look like a mess and uncool, you do now have a 2^nd stage management issue with a primary, octo, and pony reg. The management issue is ‘Which Reg/Tank am I on right now?’ We lost a few divers who were found on the bottom with full back tanks and an empty pony. They jumped in on the pony, ran dry, panicked, died. It can happen to you.
Back in the 80’s and early 90’s having a back mounted pony was quite common with singles and doubles.

The issue is, if all 3 sn stages are near or around your neck, which 2nd stage is to which tank. If all the 2nd stages are similar, can you tell in the dark, in a silt out, in a panic situation, can your buddy tell?

How some solved the problem was to use different shaped 2nd stages. On configuration was to use a Poseidon Jet Steam (Oden AKA Shower Head) is off the left tank, a Poseidon Cyclon (Thor AKA Hocky Puck) is off the right tank, and a standard 2^nd is the pony. So, we could tell by feel what tank we were on.

For your rig,
Take the spg off of the pony and replace it with a button gage then route the hose down and under your right arm and back up – being able to read the pressure in the pony is not necessary as if you are on it you should be headed up. If you are diving NDL’s, the maximum time you should be on the pony is: From 130 – Depth of 130 /30 feet per minute accent rate = 4.3 minutes call it 5 minutes plus a 3 minute safety stop, or 8 minutes. If you were able to get 11 minutes at depth, you have plenty for a bail out. If you are doing any overhead we have another discussion to have.

Take the octo off when diving this rig. When you go overseas just put it back on. All you need in a wrench and a port plug.
Shorten up your BC hose so it rides close to the BC, use bungie loops to keep it under control.
Run your spg hose down and under your right arm and put a clip on it and clip it off to your belt or bring it around and clip it off in front of you.

Now what I do is to sling the pony like a stage bottle so I can have total control of it and have the ability to hand it up at a boat or hand it to a diver in need.