Long but shallow profile, what kind of training do I need

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I have done 2+ dive there too, but it is because my max depth is 60ft, average depth maybe 40ft, and a good amount of time swiming through sand channel

So are you saying there is NO dive sites from shore that is worth diving pass MDL? This is genuine question. I don't know what I haven't seen, but I do find it hard to believe tho.

BTW, pm sent

For what its worth, team bunny regularly does 2+ hour dives in Pt. Lobos. They do the dive with only 32% and stay within MDL.
 
So are you saying there is NO dive sites from shore that is worth diving pass MDL? This is genuine question. I don't know what I haven't seen, but I do find it hard to believe tho.

That I'd be willing to kick to at Lobos? No. With a scooter, most definitely. :)

50% is ideal for deeper dives out to Twin Peaks or Montana. For longer dives out to Great Pinnacles, Three Sisters, Beto's, etc (especially if you want to hit and stay awhile at several), having O2 along is nice. GUE T1 would get you there.
 
I don't know -- I've run over MDLs kicking Beto's on a single 130 before. On a good day, there is a TON of life on that reef, especially if you go slowly and look in all the holes and cracks, and even worse if you are taking photographs. We decoed it out on backgas, and the profile coming in from the reef is perfect for that, but I can see somebody looking to get some staged decompression training if their gas consumption is good and their thermal tolerance is up for long dives.
 
Eelnora,
Is there a lot of divers in your area willing to go Rec3? What about your #1 buddy?
Rec3 has some advantages (cost and time of the class probably), but at the end, if you go for a class to extend your BT but cant find anyone to match you, it will be wasted. Of course, you can probably get these profiles with GUE tech1 guys and possibly UTD tech1 (while I’m not sure they deco on 32%, I think only 100%, while once you get that ….), but it can be frustrated along the road to realize these new buddies can do more, or actually different type of profiles.
On the positive side, could be that rec3 would be the eye opener to more?
Reading many of previous posts, it seems like the idea of having flexibility with the deco gas (50, 100, and why not 32 if this is only what’s available) and knowing (&#8230:wink: how to use them would be a very good thing.
 
I don't know -- I've run over MDLs kicking Beto's on a single 130 before.

You have amazing low consumption. :)

We decoed it out on backgas, and the profile coming in from the reef is perfect for that, but I can see somebody looking to get some staged decompression training if their gas consumption is good and their thermal tolerance is up for long dives.

I am actually OK with both backgas deco (32% in my case), or stage deco. Mainly I do want to learn how to plan it and execute it safely, instead of counting on the return swim will clear doce obligation.

---------- Post Merged at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:17 PM ----------

Is there a lot of divers in your area willing to go Rec3? What about your #1 buddy?

Actually, quite a few people I know did R3.

.. but at the end, if you go for a class to extend your BT but cant find anyone to match you, it will be wasted

You bring up a very good point that I didn't think about. I need to talk to my buddies to see if they like to dive this kind of profile
 
Actually, quite a few people I know did R3.

IMHO GUE Rec3 is just not very versatile. Yes it allows you to dip below 100ft for short times. But 21/35 really is overkill for a 120ft dive. 25/25 is totally adequate for that and saves you quite a bit of money at current helium prices. Additionally the 32% "ascent gas" is a terrible choice for actual deco. I'm sure it works fine after the 10-20mins you might spend at 120ft. Particularly if you then do a long slow ascent swimming upslope. For a free ascent to a boat, 32% is not really "accelerated deco". The only other people using this combination of gases are other Rec3 people - and possibly your local instructors since the 32% ascent gas is not a standard gas in this application.

When you start talking about 60min 100ft average depth dives, GUE Rec3 does not give you access to oxygen deco gas you need for this kind of profile.

UTD Tech1 gives you access to 25/25 and O2 with up to 15mins of deco.
GUE Tech1 gives you access to 21/35, 30/30 and O2 with up to 30mins of deco.

Either one addresses planning and gases for 60min at 100ft type dives. GUE Rec3 does not and UTD Rec3 is a no-deco class.
 
I don't really get the idea behind R3. Seems like an attempt to have every course group end with "3".
 
I don't really get the idea behind R3. Seems like an attempt to have every course group end with "3".

Probably. Another "3" level course that nobody will take, like Cave 3 and Tech 3.
 
IMHO GUE Rec3 is just not very versatile. Yes it allows you to dip below 100ft for short times. But 21/35 really is overkill for a 120ft dive. 25/25 is totally adequate for that and saves you quite a bit of money at current helium prices. Additionally the 32% "ascent gas" is a terrible choice for actual deco. I'm sure it works fine after the 10-20mins you might spend at 120ft. Particularly if you then do a long slow ascent swimming upslope. For a free ascent to a boat, 32% is not really "accelerated deco". The only other people using this combination of gases are other Rec3 people - and possibly your local instructors since the 32% ascent gas is not a standard gas in this application.

When you start talking about 60min 100ft average depth dives, GUE Rec3 does not give you access to oxygen deco gas you need for this kind of profile.

UTD Tech1 gives you access to 25/25 and O2 with up to 15mins of deco.
GUE Tech1 gives you access to 21/35, 30/30 and O2 with up to 30mins of deco.

Either one addresses planning and gases for 60min at 100ft type dives. GUE Rec3 does not and UTD Rec3 is a no-deco class.

As a GUE Rec3 graduate (first in the USA!) and current UTD T1 diver (finishing UTD T2 soon), I would have to agree that Rec3 is not very versatile in terms of where you can explore at the deep end of the range. 32% as a deco gas from 70' is, honestly, a bit silly. If you want to do 60 minute square profile dives at 100', I agree with most everybody else that either GUE or UTD T1 are probably better options. UTD T1 is a nearly perfect match for a lot of the diving you're asking about. GUE T1 will be more intense and take you deeper/longer (UTD T2 is the equivalent level), and will let you do those dives off the BAUE boats and at BAUE events (don't ignore that benefit). All that said, Rec3 does actually work well for a fair amount of "mid-range" diving we have at Point Lobos, and for some of the pinnacles we have for boat dives, once you understand the dives folks like Beto actually have in mind for R3 divers.

The key to understanding effective Rec3 profiles (as Ted/Ben alluded to - they've done the dives with me :)) is that you're looking for sites that allow you to effectively enjoy a second dive while you're doing your minimal deco. Deep shore diving with a gradual (and beautiful) return trip like Point Lobos is great. Pinnacles with interesting scenery and life distributed from 120' to 30' are great. Here's a typical R3 dive for me at Lobos...

  • Scooter out to somewhere like Betos (good length surface scoot, then staying ~100'), enjoy the scenery during the trip
  • Descend to ~120', have a nice ~15 minute tour around the bottom
  • Ascend to 90', scoot above the site and start heading back in
  • Gas switch at 70' (Sea Mount)
  • No faster than 10'/min (easy to maintain) to 50' while swimming or scooting back in (maybe pass by/enjoy Hole In The Wall)
  • Head over to Middle Reef, stay above 50', and enjoy a nice dive going deep -> shallow for basically as long as you care to and have 32% for
  • Do your 20' stop and 5 minute ascent, get out, eat lunch :eat:

That's on scooters, and it's a nice, fun dive - especially when vis is good. Total runtime is usually between 50-80 minutes. You do a similar thing on pinnacles, but without so much travelling. Square profile R3 dives where you drop to the bottom, do your time, do your planned deco, and get out of the water are stupid and boring IMO. When you get some experience beyond class, run a few hundred experimental profiles in deco planner, start thinking about the actual average depth on dives like the one I described above, use your brain, and realize that you're actually able to do a fair amount of neat diving at Lobos with this cert and a scooter (or a long surface swim).

You also get access to 30/30 with R3. The only problem is that since it's a 100' gas nowadays 30/30 is stupid, expensive, can't be quickly blended as 32% + He, and doesn't actually save you substantial amounts of deco time in this range. 25/25 is a better choice IMO, and covers the entire R3 range, but if you're diving with GUE/BAUE divers you need to make sure your team is on the same page with you - it's not a GUE standard gas.

FWIW, the only reason I'm not taking GUE T1 is because UTD was able to put together a competitive class package for me (that GUE teaching standards disallow) that involved doing my training the way I actually do 99% of my dives - on scooters at Lobos. I'm not a big boat guy (as Ted and Ben can also attest to :)). Beto is a fantastic instructor, I loved class with him, and I highly recommend him to everybody.
 
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