Regulator bungie for recreational diver

[dumpsterDiver]

Deb, I'm glad you took the bungie off your primary -- you had misunderstood the system. But please make sure you don't have a standard 24" hose on your primary reg, if you are going to use the Air2 as backup. There is a reason the secondary, when it is donated, is on a 36 or 40 inch hose, and that is because 24" jams the two sharing divers together, and creates a real risk of the OOA diver losing the reg if the two of you lose grip on one another at all. It's also uncomfortable, and that adds to stress.

This really is the reason why donate the primary people almost all end up going to a wrapped hose of some kind. If you put your primary reg on an octo-length hose, you have a HUGE loop of hose sticking out around you, or, to route the hose under your arm and keep it neat, you have to put an angle adapter on the hose/second stage attachment, to allow the regulator to sit comfortably in your mouth. On the other hand, the wrapped 5' hose, since it comes around behind your neck, sits well in the mouth without an adapter, and it has no big loops sticking out anywhere. And yes, you need to practice a bit with a wrapped hose, to learn to deploy and restow it neatly.

I am not sure how long my primary hose is, but it is over the shoulder and shorter than an octopus hose. I will donate it in an emergency. I have practiced sharing air with this short primary many times and it has not been a problem. Maybe a longer primary would be better in an emergency, but I would rather not have a long hose hanging out, or some additional angle adapter or swivel (i.e., failure point in the hose). I have only had one true emergency requiring that I share the primary reg, so I don't have a lot of experience in true emergencies, but I am comfortable with what I believe is a standard hose length.

This is one practice session.

[video=youtube;vDrF1AOnabc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDrF1AOnabc&list=UU1utDku8vJRJYgBZImLyLJQ& index=9&feature=plcp[/video]

 

[klauricella]

I was specifically referring to donating the primary on a standard length interstage hose; which is why I used those words.

If you want to donate your primary on a standard 22" hose then I suggest you have a good practice to find out how awkward it is. Even octopus hoses are longer than the regular hose for a reason.

As to GUE standards - no, you need a long hose primary for all GUE classes.

Donating a standard hose length is not that dangerous, if you are dealing with a diver that is panicking you may be in front of them looking them in the eyes. I agree the big problem with the post is bungeeing the primary reg.

This is from the GUE website
5.Long Hose: Optional in shallow, open water diving, but mandatory in deeper or overhead diving; the long hose simplifies air sharing. When used, the long hose, along with the primary regulator, should ALWAYS be placed on the diver's right post.

Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers

 

[g1138]

That's the same thing I said I do, as I mistakenly thought the OP was using something similar. But with the pics that have been posted it seems clear that people are talking about tying a bungee permanently to the octo, which is something entirely different--one of those DIR things, I guess. Nobody has directly replied to my question of whether they see anything wrong with the way you and I do it, and I assumed that's because our method is sort of irrelevant to this discussion of permanently tied octos.

It's not a DIR thing, it's a personal preference thing. Reread post #20 to find my response to your question regarding conventional octos in necklaces.

Concerning other statements about sharing air on a short primary hose, it is doable but very limited. UC Santa Cruz teaches to donate the 26in primary hose and take up the 40in octo for yourself. Once donated you link arms in a do-si-do and make an immediate ascent to the surface. Our class and club dives often allow for this to be safely done, if not then students are expected to swim in this formation, one is belly up, the other belly down.

Not saying it's my preference, but it is possible and the students handle it quite well.

 

[Hickdive]

Donating a standard hose length is not that dangerous, if you are dealing with a diver that is panicking you may be in front of them looking them in the eyes. I agree the big problem with the post is bungeeing the primary reg.

This is from the GUE website
5.Long Hose: Optional in shallow, open water diving, but mandatory in deeper or overhead diving; the long hose simplifies air sharing. When used, the long hose, along with the primary regulator, should ALWAYS be placed on the diver's right post.

Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers

I don't think "awkward" is a synonym for "dangerous".

Long hose is, as I said, mandatory for GUE courses. Your link is a GUE commentary on equipment configuration but it is not the equipment specification for participation on GUE courses.

 

[TSandM]

The website needs updating. GUE decided quite some time ago to standardize on the 7' hose for all diving. It just made life easier.

It's not necessary to do that to use the bungied backup approach, though. But I still maintain that a LONGER hose (octo length or more) is necessary. Yes, you CAN share gas on a 24" hose, but it is neither comfortable nor convenient, and it is my personal feeling that when you are dealing with someone who is already stressed, you should reduce that stress any way you can, and using a longer primary hose is an easy way to do that.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It's not a DIR thing, it's a personal preference thing. Reread post #20 to find my response to your question regarding conventional octos in necklaces.
. . .

I had read your post #20, but you didn't answer my question. Instead, you asked about the length of the hose, which is irrelevant to my question. My question was simply whether there is any potential detriment to retaining the octo in a yellow rubber necklace instead of the more traditional octo holder on a BCD D-ring. Assume that hose length is the same in either configuration, and it's the same length that has traditionally been used for yellow octo hoses (okay, I guess that's about 40 inches). As far as I can determine, the octo releases from the rubber necklace with about the same degree of effort as it releases from the conventional octo holder on a D-ring. In the necklace, the octo is only a few inches away from where in the former configuration it was held in the conventional octo-holder in the so-called golden triangle, so I don't see how hose length would be a factor in a decision whether to make this particular configuration change.

Now, if you're getting away from the specific question and challenging whether EITHER of those configurations is optimal, I agree the answer is probably not. As this thread helps show, the traditional octo in a holder on a D-ring in the golden triangle has shortcomings. As I said, I plan to change configurations again at some point in the near future and adopt the donate-the-primary approach with the primary on a longer (5 feet maybe) hose. It will probably be when I gear up to take GUE Fundies.

 

[Chris66]

The original title to this was "Bungee for the recreational diver". I am as such and use one of those bright yellow rubber Bungees which I think is ideal.

1. My Octo is near my mouth for me in the event of an issue with my primary or in the event that a panicked diver pulls my primary
Although it holds my octo securely, a brisk pull will easily free it from the Bungee
It can clearly be seen by my dive buddy and by me and so if it does come loose I will know it loose - as against something hanging near my belly.

Chris

 

[g1138]

I had read your post #20, but you didn't answer my question. Instead, you asked about the length of the hose, which is irrelevant to my question. My question was simply whether there is any potential detriment to retaining the octo in a yellow rubber necklace instead of the more traditional octo holder on a BCD D-ring. Assume that hose length is the same in either configuration, and it's the same length that has traditionally been used for yellow octo hoses (okay, I guess that's about 40 inches). As far as I can determine, the octo releases from the rubber necklace with about the same degree of effort as it releases from the conventional octo holder on a D-ring. In the necklace, the octo is only a few inches away from where in the former configuration it was held in the conventional octo-holder in the so-called golden triangle, so I don't see how hose length would be a factor in a decision whether to make this particular configuration change.

Now, if you're getting away from the specific question and challenging whether EITHER of those configurations is optimal, I agree the answer is probably not. As this thread helps show, the traditional octo in a holder on a D-ring in the golden triangle has shortcomings. As I said, I plan to change configurations again at some point in the near future and adopt the donate-the-primary approach with the primary on a longer (5 feet maybe) hose. It will probably be when I gear up to take GUE Fundies.

Allow me the clarify, if it is the standard octo length there would be a big bow of hose outside your profile. This tends to catch on things or rub up against your buddy or the environment. So yes I see a problem here to put it bluntly.
It's equivalent to having a dangly off your profile, the only difference is this one is more prone to catching because of the loop created.

If an OOA diver is going for your octo, it's in a uncommon spot. Your buddy may have no trouble if he's been briefed, but a non-buddy or panicked buddy will have some trouble identifying.
If he grabs your primary there should be no big difference in the deploy-time it takes for you to reach your octo around your neck or on your chest. Likewise, there's no huge time difference in deploying one around your neck or off your chest. That has been my experience.
Deploying off the hip is a bit slower for me though by comparison.

So I don't see a benefit in having the standard length octo bungeed to your neck.

If you have trouble finding a secure method for your octo (aside from the necklace) I would suggest making a loop out of 3/16" bungee or using a snorkel keeper. Loop it around a D-ring and hook the mouthpiece into the loop; wrapping it past the zip tie notch.

 

[DaleC]

Lorenzoid, there is nothing wrong with keeping your octo in a necklace as you describe if you route it under your right arm as one would traditionally route the octo. Just recognize that it isn't the same as an octo in a bungee as it is thought of by most long hose divers. Those silicone necklaces allow the octo to hang too low, a bungee'd back up is tucked under the chin, not down on the chest.

What you are describing is the basic "octo in the triangle" as proscribed by PADI et al, with the octo being held by a longer necklace instead of a stopper on the D ring. In your case you would donate the octo (I assume). If you have the common yellow purge guard on it would be as easy to see by an OOA diver as any other centrally located octo is. It's right there above your sternum.

Having said that I'm not a big fan of those necklaces. One problem I found with that style of holder is that it's longer length allowed the octo to travel around my neck region so it wasn't as easy to locate by feel as a more tightly held bungee'd octo is. I didn't notice the difference until I switched but when I did it was quite notably different. Also note though, that when you shorten the bungee, you change the way you use it - then you need to plan to donate the primary. Plan accordingly.

I still don't get what all the detachable fuss is about though. My octo is on a 22" hose - how far are you going to donate that thing anyways? I could probably stretch my bungee that far if I had to and I use a thin enough bungee that it would break with a stiff tug; it's not going to strangle me. And I've never yet had a situation wherein I needed to remove it from around my neck in anger.

Personally I would prefer to know where my octo is 100% of the time instead of being able to remove it .001% percent of the time when being able to remove it doesn't really matter anyways.


"If you have trouble finding a secure method for your octo (aside from the necklace) I would suggest making a loop out of 3/16" bungee or using a snorkel keeper. Loop it around a D-ring and hook the mouthpiece into the loop; wrapping it past the zip tie notch."

Really? Don't you think a snorkel keeper secured past the zip tie has a pretty good chance of pulling the mouthpiece off with it when deployed rapidly. I'm looking at mine and it doesn't have much give.

 

[idive2]

Seems that recreational divers are looking for a balance between what may be optimal in assisting
another diver and what is more convenient for them on all other dives. There is a big difference
in diving caves and wrecks compared to reefs sixty foot and shallower. I personally prefer not to do
500 dives with a configuration that is less than covenient for the one or two times something might
work a bit better. I would certainly recommend an octo over an air II if your goal is to be able to
to assist a diver low or out of air. I bungie my standard configuration breathing reg so I will never
be reaching or searching for a dislodged regulator and so it is not swinging freely when I am reboarding a
charter or exiting from a shore or bridge dive. My octo is on a standard octo hose and available with an easy
tug in a location that is prescribed by many recreational diving agencys. The reg I am breathing can be quickly
pulled loose from the bungie if another diver grabs it or if I decide to donate it and go to my octo.