A question about the devils eye/ear entrances

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Sorry, but I don't meet up with random strangers off the internet based on just one post. It's dangerous.

I also don't drink alcohol, at all, ever. I don't do anything that would cloud my judgement.

If we pass each other diving sometime I might give you an "ok" sign though :)

Peace.

troll.

and if you're really serious, best thing you can do is to make sure edd sorenson is teaching a course there that day...
 
Sorry, but I don't meet up with random strangers off the internet based on just one post. It's dangerous.

And yet you'll take life and death topography advice from the same "random strangers off the internet based on just one post"?

That was a very gracious offer made by James, Rich and friend. Good for you guys... :)
 
Darwinism in effect, the world needs less stupid people. Its reading things like this that reminds me of why I only stop by Scubaboard every couple of months. I mean really? You say I'm not trained, and not going to be, but Im going to do this anyways. People DO die in these caves, some doing exactly what you want to. What actually makes you think that you are qualified to do this dive. Don't be so cheap, spend the money, get the training, and enjoy your diving safely!
 
Sorry, but I don't meet up with random strangers off the internet based on just one post. It's dangerous.

I also don't drink alcohol, at all, ever. I don't do anything that would cloud my judgement.

If we pass each other diving sometime I might give you an "ok" sign though :)

Definitely a troll.

No one could be stupid enough to think meeting two people in a public place is "dangerous" and worry about the clouded judgement induced by a single beer and be seriously contemplating swimming from the ear to the eye without any level of cave training.
 
Swampy: James and Rich made the generous offer to meet up with you to try and share some perspective, but you were too sanctimonious to accept their offer. I just gotta ask... ever tried drinking milk, or a soda, while others drink beer? Surprisingly enough you can usually order both at a bar! AND a bar, a public place... a lot to be a'feared of... I mean, really?


I'll direct the rest of this to someone else who may be reading through this thread thinking somewhat along Swampy's lines, but with an open mind. In short:


  • Training was developed on the mistakes that others have made over the years, most often fatal.
  • In cave diving, self-study and mentoring both have a place, but a base level of training is something that can not be replaced. Other people have spoken to why.
  • At the end of the day, cave divers DO NOT want people to die caves. Whether it's because we don't people to die, period, or because we don't specific caves closed, or because we don't want a movement started where uninformed people start to call for ALL caves to be closed, or because we simply don't want friends/acquaintances to have to deal with another recovery.
  • People going in caves, without training, are likely to end up dying in a cave, sooner or later. Because they don't know what they don't know. Period.

I've only been certified to dive in caves since 2011, so I don't have the experience a lot of people responding do. But even a new cave diver understands these simple concepts.
 
wtcreaux, thanks for your input, but do you really think there is NOBODY intelligent enough to figure out how to safely do something on their own?

I think an intelligent diver would recognize the value of training as the means to figure out how to (more) safely do something. There are the things you know that you know (training doesn't help there -- you already are aware of that). There are the things you know that you don't know (and training is handy place to learn more about those things -- but you at least knew you had a knowledge gap).

And then there are the things you don't know that you don't know (and training -- either in a class or via the school of hard knocks is where you identify these). The School of Hard Knocks is a fine way to go when for many things but not for higher risk activities (where the knock is often fatal or debilitating and might also injure or kill others).


I get that you think the classes are just a chance for someone to take something from you (class fees, your time) and keep you from what is rightfully yours (doing a particular dive). I would argue that classes, on balance, actually give you something -- the skills and knowledge to engage in a safer way.

Others have provided excellent specific examples of the risks. Others have explained why they don't want people diving in caves (everything from altruistic to self interest). Others have explained what the they learned in class that surprised them (or near tragic dives they were involved in).

I would ask you to think about two questions: Do you think everyone who has posted is doing this only to drive business to "their friends" or to themselves? Is it possible that the posters here (who, IIRC, include an ER doctor) might have genuine insight into the topic that you have yet to consider?
 
I'm not exactly sure what they were talking about but I overheard an instructor on Saturday telling his open water students that the dive plan was to go to Devil's Ear and do the swim through???? There is no swim through that I"m aware of.
 
I'm not exactly sure what they were talking about but I overheard an instructor on Saturday telling his open water students that the dive plan was to go to Devil's Ear and do the swim through???? There is no swim through that I"m aware of.

I would have asked him what he was talking about doing.
 
I'm not exactly sure what they were talking about but I overheard an instructor on Saturday telling his open water students that the dive plan was to go to Devil's Ear and do the swim through???? There is no swim through that I"m aware of.

A very dangerous standards violation by any agency. I would have tried to identify this instructor & then reported them to their agency. It is instructors like this that give OW students the "green light" to go into overhead environments with impunity/ without training.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/
https://xf2.scubaboard.com/community/forums/cave-diving.45/

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