How about that sidemount

[SSIdiver]

Thanks for all the advice! And Ive already done a huge amount of research on sidemount so I
i have a good idea of was is envolved already. I plan getting more into the wreck diving side of it and
thats why I was asking about first stages cause that seemed to be one thing that wasn't really talked about. I'm currently looking at the hog D1 to replace my scuba pro yoke ( not sure of model but the reg is a D400)

 

[ianr33]

I just used the regs I happened to have (Apeks DS4) No rotating turret,no 5th port.

In an ideal world would probably go with the turret,but don' see the need to get new regs just for the sake of that.

DIN makes sense,but that goes for any diving,not just sidemount!

 

[rakkis]

If you're looking for a deal on a set of side mount regs, see my thread:



http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439834

 

[Dive-aholic]

I think this depends on which sidemount system is being used. Personally I'd agree the rotating turret and 5th port is a nice feature to consider when looking for a sidemount regs, not essential - but definitely nice to have as it makes the hose routing much simpler. The 5th port is generally used for the LP Inflator hose when the corrugated hose is fed from the bottom of the bladder rather than over the shoulder - there isn't much use for the 5th port in over the should inflator hose configurations as far as I can see.

Actually, the 5th port can interfere with trimming out the tanks when the corrugated hose comes off the bottom like on the Armadillo. My preferred configuration is to have my 1st stages snugged under my arms so they are protected. Many of my students see the benefit and try this as well. Some of them have 1st stages with a 5th port and they tend to stick the LP hoses there. It simply doesn't work. With the 1st stage tucked into your pits a hose coming off of the 5th port just causes the tanks to be twisted around or pushed down and out of trim.

The rotating turret just allows for better hose routing again, especially if a short hose is used on the left tank. The long hose doesn't have a huge advantage with a rotating turret.

How does it allow for better hose routing?

Agreed on the piston vs. diaphragm, there not really much difference unless it's very cold water, although I've found the the piston rotating turrets tend to give slightly better hose routing as the body is generally longer so put the turret swing outside the line of the extended stem valve/tank curve - Just slightly better, not a lot better [/quote}

And I've found that the longer body tends to interfere with one of two things when you keep the 1st stages tucked. It either interferes with the ability to do a valve shut down because it gets in the way of the knob or it digs into your ribs and rotates or pushes the tanks.

This being said, if you configure your 1stages out in front then it really doesn't matter as long as you run the longer side of the regulator body in away from the knob. The 1st stage will stick out in front far enough so a 5th port hose or longer body do not affect the position of the tanks.

 

[Karl_H]

Actually, the 5th port can interfere with trimming out the tanks when the corrugated hose comes off the bottom like on the Armadillo. My preferred configuration is to have my 1st stages snugged under my arms so they are protected. Many of my students see the benefit and try this as well. Some of them have 1st stages with a 5th port and they tend to stick the LP hoses there. It simply doesn't work. With the 1st stage tucked into your pits a hose coming off of the 5th port just causes the tanks to be twisted around or pushed down and out of trim.

Hmm, can't quite see it but I'll take your word for it on the Armadilo as I don't know the harness well. Harnesses like the Razor, Z-Trim, Z-Plus, Stealth, SMS50 etc it works much better with the 5th post LPI. I guess it's a problem on harnesses where the LPI is still mounted on the left side rather than routed across the chest.

How does it allow for better hose routing?

For the short hose? The turret can be rotated to routes the hose directly up and around your neck rather than down the tank, bending through 180°, then runing back up where it came from. Having the hose pointed directly up on a fixed 1st stage isn't ideal as it works fine in normal position but isn't good if the tank is removed, the position changed. Same argument as hose routing on deco regs for me, the compact turret regs work really well.

And I've found that the longer body tends to interfere with one of two things when you keep the 1st stages tucked. It either interferes with the ability to do a valve shut down because it gets in the way of the knob or it digs into your ribs and rotates or pushes the tanks.

The reg doesn't get in the way of valves, especially if you are using left and right post valves. I'd tell people their tanks are way, way too low if the first stage is sticking into their ribs, maybe this is a steel tank mounting issue over an aluminium, the tanks should be up at armpit level, not in the ribs. I guess you're using loop bungees rather than wrapped?

 

[JamesK]

OK, here is my take on all this.

I have never tried a non-rotating turret, so I will not speak on those. I have used piston and diaphragm, with the piston having a fifth port. The diaphragm regs are what I prefer for hose routing. I run both LP hoses on each reg straight down and looping back up. Usually using a 15" LP hose on each side. This is nice and clean and does not block access to the valves. With the piston regs having the fifth port I tried a few setups. I tried the fifth port and thought I liked it until I tried bringing a tank in front of me. I found, as someone warned me it would happen, that the inflator hose coming from the fifth port tended to bind up. I found Shasta worked best for me on that style reg if I wanted to keep using the fifth port is to angle the regs just like I do on my back mount setup. This placed everything exactly where I wanted it. The binding issue was not as bad either.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Hmm, can't quite see it but I'll take your word for it on the Armadilo as I don't know the harness well. Harnesses like the Razor, Z-Trim, Z-Plus, Stealth, SMS50 etc it works much better with the 5th post LPI. I guess it's a problem on harnesses where the LPI is still mounted on the left side rather than routed across the chest.

You're making a big assumption here. This is not an Armadillo issue. I dive an Armadillo, a Nomad, a Razor, etc, etc. Oh, and my Armadillo has the LPI coming off the right side not the left.

For the short hose? The turret can be rotated to routes the hose directly up and around your neck rather than down the tank, bending through 180°, then runing back up where it came from. Having the hose pointed directly up on a fixed 1st stage isn't ideal as it works fine in normal position but isn't good if the tank is removed, the position changed. Same argument as hose routing on deco regs for me, the compact turret regs work really well.

And without a rotating turret you just use the port on top and route it directly up and around your neck. There is no reason to run it down the tank and bend it. I do a lot of diving where I remove tanks and push them in front of me and have never had an issue with my hose routing.

The reg doesn't get in the way of valves, especially if you are using left and right post valves. I'd tell people their tanks are way, way too low if the first stage is sticking into their ribs, maybe this is a steel tank mounting issue over an aluminium, the tanks should be up at armpit level, not in the ribs. I guess you're using loop bungees rather than wrapped?

Another big assumption. I primarily use left and right post valves. The only time I don't is when I'm off in a country where only tanks with right hand valves can be rented. Also, simple anatomy lesson here - the ribs are positioned over the entire chest. If you feel the bones on your torso directly under your arm pits your are feeling your ribs. I do use loop bungees. They pull the tanks up not into the ribs like wrapped bungees so I'm not sure what you're implying by your question.

 

[Karl_H]

Hi Rob,

I'm not trying to say you're wrong or I'm right so no need to get too defensive dude

Personally I have no problems with the LPI on the 5th port, nor does anyone diving sidemount that I know. That's not saying it's the only way, I just prefer it - the only difference I can see is the harness we're normally using and the type of tanks?

Yes, you can route the short hose on a fixed regulator, thats why I said the turret is better to have, not that it's required? Moving to no mount shouldn't be an issue as you say but as I mentioned removing the tanks, i.e. staging them, isn't ideal when the fixed hose is pointing directly down. Same goes if tanks are used in a boat and laid out flat on the boat deck during transport (which is the standard in many places here for example) having the hose point straight up isn't ideal. My point was if you have the chance to buy new regs why not get them with a 5th port and rotating turret?

Regarding the ribs I think you're missing the point I'm making here, having the valves up by your arm pits means the regs will not dig in your ribs, that's just common sense, if they are then something is not right with the set up. If the vales are lower as your using shorter tanks or a butt plate then I can see this been an issue, the thing is when using aluminium tanks the butt plate is just not a good system in my opinion, for steel tanks yep - it works fine, but if your diving mainly aluminium the butt plate really isn't the right system. Using the harness belt d-rings brings the tanks much higher, more streamlined, easy to reach and easier to trim out - the only way I can see the rib poking becoming an issue is if your tanks are very short or if you're using a leash which is way too long the buoyant tanks are flailing around and turning into you - there's much better and easier ways to fix that than ruling out all piston regs?

No offence meant so please don't take any.