Open letter to boat dive masters

[Captain_Bob]

I have had customers on my boat who are instructors, Divemasters, shop owners etc. Who I have seen roll off the boat with out the air on. They have the qualifications that say they are competent divers, but mistakes happen. I now make it clear to my crew that it is there job to check. If you insist on not letting someone check this for you does that mean I don't need to help you as you are panicking in the water because you couldn't get any air?

 

[Mike]

I am going to relate a true story that may seem totally off topic but should illustrate the concern professionals have about doing their assigned tasks and issues of liability.

In 2003, the Australian dive operator Mike Ball had a policy requiring all divers to do a checkout dive with them before they could do their regular dives. One of their customers, with his wife on their honeymoon, told them they did not need to do a check out dive because he was certified at the Rescue Diver level and could take care of both himself and his new OW wife. The operator took him at his word and let them skip that dive. (Please note that the requirement for the check out dive was solely theirs--there was no law or other rule outside of their own operation requiring it.)

So the diver and his wife, Gabe and Tina Watson, went into the water on a fairly challenging dive, and Tina did not come back alive. Subsequent analysis showed that despite his certification, he was a barely competent diver, and she was pretty much incompetent.

Because they had not followed their own policy and had accepted the word of a certified diver that he was OK, Mike Ball was made to pay a huge fine. I assure you they will not make that mistake again.

WTF? That's a bizarre example. There are millions of people who would say something completely different when referencing Gabe Watson and the first letter of the word would start with an M.

 

[redacted]

I have had customers on my boat who are instructors, Divemasters, shop owners etc. Who I have seen roll off the boat with out the air on. They have the qualifications that say they are competent divers, but mistakes happen. I now make it clear to my crew that it is there job to check. If you insist on not letting someone check this for you does that mean I don't need to help you as you are panicking in the water because you couldn't get any air?

Does that mean that you are taking responsibility for your customers having their air turned on?

 

[jar546]

WTF? That's a bizarre example. There are millions of people who would say something completely different when referencing Gabe Watson and the first letter of the word would start with an M.

It's actually quite the perfect example. Some may think and say they are competent, but.......

 

[boulderjohn]

WTF? That's a bizarre example. There are millions of people who would say something completely different when referencing Gabe Watson and the first letter of the word would start with an M.

And they'd be wrong.

Most of what they would have heard was misreporting in the popular press and, more importantly, a thoroughly bungled investigation by the police. That is why the judge in Alabama threw the case out of court after the prosecution was done without even requiring the defense to present its case.

There is a very informative thread on ScubaBoard you can use to learn something about the case in case you are interested.

Regardless of those details, the point is that a dive operator was tried and convicted for failing to follow its own safety procedures.

 

[idive2]

Yep, a great habit to get into breathing off the reg several times while watching spg making sure psi does not drop.
I do this on every dive...shallow, deep, shore, or bridge dive. I would be willing to bet that many more valves
that had not been opened have been caught by the charter compared to the very low chance of the valve possibly
being turned the wrong way by said crew. While I always check my valve and do a breath test with spg I do not mind
a double check by the crew. If the crew has checked my valve after getting up I will AGAIN do the breath test while
watching my spg before doing my giant stride.

 

[Mustard Dave]

Definition of Problem
Some divers appreciate having their valves checked, others hate it, and there have been DMs that have mistakenly closed the valve. Boat operators have liability and personal responsibility concerns and some divers have justifiable trust issues.

Proposed Improvement:
Since jumping overboard with a closed valve is only a small part of the actual problem, let’s critique the following to see if it works for everyone and can be refined:

1. Divers are requested to show their SPG to the DM and breathe from the regulator until the DM is satisfied that the cylinder valve is open AND the entire breathing system is functioning properly.
2. I don’t think anyone would object to the DM listening for leaks and looking for gear problems. If a concern is identified, the DM will always discuss them with the diver and never change anything without asking. Comment: It may slow the parade but IMHO beats the alternative.
3. Testing the BC supply to verify operation may also be requested.
4. Divers will be advised of this procedure on the pre-dive briefing so they can choose to postpone them before the “witnessed” test in order to save gas.
5. Briefings “should be” concluded by asking for questions and special requests.
6. SPG pressure can be recorded at the option of the DM and/or boat operator on leaving and returning as a backup to their “everybody onboard roll call”.
7. Vindicator valve handwheels are desirable (not required), especially on cylinders provided by the boat.

Add to this list my own personal pet peeve: Cylinders supplied by the boat should be convertible between DIN and Yoke… but I kind’a like the hot babes for DMs idea too.

Yeah yeah I know, men are such pigs.

I agree with most of that, especially the bit about the chicks! The DIN and yoke would be nice - DIN regs can be converted easily with an insert but to do it the other way means taking an adapter, which defeats the object of having the superior DIN regs.

As I said in an earlier point, I'd prefer DMs not to stick their oar in. The only advice I want is site conditions, ETA at the dive site etc. I'll handle my kit myself. However, I said I'm happy to cooperate if they want to do certain checks provided they keep their hands off my kit and the list of checks you suggest seems appropriate.

The only thing I don't like is number 7. I had never heard of Vindicator handwheels until they were mentioned in this thread. Having read about them, I see them as not only a solution to a problem that does not exist, but also a potential failure point. The Vindicator only shows a mechanical operation has taken place and does not prove flow. The only way to prove flow is to breath off it and check the contents gauge. A DM relying on that alone would be dangerous and therefore it serves no purpose. I'd chuck it in the bin along with tank bangers, ankle weights and the Buddy Pocket Reel o' Death.

 

[Akimbo]

…The only thing I don't like is number 7. I had never heard of Vindicator handwheels until they were mentioned in this thread. Having read about them, I see them as not only a solution to a problem that does not exist, but also a potential failure point...

Thanks for your critique. I was also skeptical about the Vindicator handles until playing with them at an LDS. The handle is more hand-friendly and the visual status helps when filling endless banks of cylinders, especially doubles with isolation manifolds.

They are very simple and clever mechanically. As mentioned, crew members are less compelled to touch your gear when they can just look. The visual status also has value for buddies on complex multi-cylinder decompression dives. IMHO, there is no down-side to the added feature which I rate as desirable rather than important… unless some moron installs it wrong. There are different handwheels for different valve manufacturers.

 

[FM1520]

Dear DM, Thank you for checking my valve, handing me my fins, taking my fins when I return, helping me with donning and doffing when necessary and filling my tank to the correct pressure. Your assistance in getting everyone on and off the boat as efficiently as possible makes for a more enjoyable experience.

 

[Hetland]

I don't really want a DM touching my gear but if they are going to, all I ask is to let me know about it. That way I can tell you I dive with my tank on all the way. Not the 1/4 turn back stuff that is still taught in many classes. So when you go to turn and it doesn't go anywhere ask me to breathe it while we watch the gauge before you start cranking it the other way and shut it down with a 1/4 turn open. That way you'll get tip.

Try to adjust my harness or weights and we will have a problem. I will do my best to let you know during the briefing that I am particular about having the air supply all the way on or hopefully before we even leave the dock. I may forget. So please just let me know you are turning my valve before you do so.

Other than that just give me a good site briefing and stay on the boat and we will get along fine. Or if you are required to be in the water don't expect me to match your pace or direction. But we will have worked that out beforehand as I won't choose an op that requires me to follow the DM. That's my responsibility though as part of the overall dive plan and I will have verified it before even booking.

I would question a DM that is confused by left and right hand valves. As professionals they should be familiar with anything like that. I can see a rebreather giving them fits, but 10 minutes to sit down and look at the difference between a left and right hand valve should not cause a problem so that in the future they would not be confused. To me that's like an instructor who can't adjust to a student using a BPW. They need some con ed themselves.

+1 on all of this.

I add dorky vindicator valve knobs to all my "backward" valves so there's visual confirmation that they're killing me by turning them off

---------- Post added January 2nd, 2013 at 09:47 PM ----------

You can indeed take a few breaths after the tank has been cut off but if you are watching the gauge, you will see a dramatic drop in pressure!

Yep, what I do with each of my second stages before I roll. I'm amazed that less people do this, but I hardly ever catch anyone on a boat doing it. A fair number breathe their regs, but very few seem to watch their gauge while they're doing it.

---------- Post added January 2nd, 2013 at 09:52 PM ----------

I had never heard of Vindicator handwheels until they were mentioned in this thread. Having read about them, I see them as not only a solution to a problem that does not exist, but also a potential failure point. The Vindicator only shows a mechanical operation has taken place and does not prove flow. The only way to prove flow is to breath off it and check the contents gauge. A DM relying on that alone would be dangerous and therefore it serves no purpose. I'd chuck it in the bin along with tank bangers, ankle weights and the Buddy Pocket Reel o' Death.

I can't see the knob with my tank on my back. The Vindicator is to let other people know they are making a mistake by turning off my "backwards" valves. I find them more practical than carrying a sign around that says "this guy is diving a non-standard valve".