Another Great trip- need advice on nitrox cert.

[SeaSoulSelf]

We just took our nitrox class. You can do it with just a small investment of time. Watched the video and did the knowledge review on Sunday, finished practical, review and exam in the shop classroom setting last night. Four hours total time (estimated).

Hope you find out the source and resolution for that pain.

 

[DandyDon]

Oh good grief...!

The only online courses I know of are the PADI E- Learning - and they re not bogus and the cards are accepted everywhere - there is no difference in the c-card you get from PADI. I don't know if other agencies are offering the online courses yet - but any course with an accredited agency is not bogus - PDI, NAUI, SSI, SSI, TDI, SDI, CMAS and a variety of others from Europe. Not sure where you got your info Don, or maybe it was an assumption you made.

An assumption on my part...?!

Yes, sure - a course & card with an accredited agency would be fine, except that not's 100% accurate. Who is to say that an agency is accredited? Some leading agencies are not members of RSTC. Anyway, the infamous ones to avoid are SDA or Scuba Divers of America, OnlineScubaLessons.com, Aquastrophics, and there are others. See...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...365912-100%-nitrox-class-online-thoughts.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/q-scuba-certification-agencies/244053-enriched-air-cert-online.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...iving/242958-onlinescubalessons-com-scam.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/192712-online-nitrox-sda.html

And others. There has been a lot of discussion about bogus online courses. I guess you weren't aware, but accusing me of assuming was lame.

Plus warnings about SDA at http://www.padi.com/scuba/about-pad...onsumer-alerts/special-advisories/Dive-Shops/
​

And "justify" what we charge?? Again - as you so often do, you are implying that we are all making too much money and over charging for things therefore needing to "justify" what is charged. Here is the justification Don for a $150 - $175 course fee! Instructors need to be paid, PADI gets their fee (which we pay in the form of the certification fee either electronically or with a paper PIC), the course materials have to be covered, there is paperwork and administrative time that should not be expected for free, and the nitrox tanks are not free. I (as the shop) don't make a DIME on a nitrox course - I cover expenses only - but I do that because I think it is a very worthwhile and important certification for divers to have - especially those who like to dive, dive dive and for those who are not young whipper snappers.

As I so often do...?!

I really cannot think of anytime that I have thought that you overcharged for your top line services, much less suggested that - and I just don't think I have. I know that you supply much more than the cheaper operators, and I have no problems at all with your charges. Indeed, I saw your post above that dives were not required. I did not know that you do include those. I was thinking about what some of the stateside shops charge, but enough.

True - after one case of the bends (Type II) - you can be more susceptible if you enter diving too soon without properly recovering and letting the wounds heal - just like any other would - you just can't see it!

Which would not apply to his case. It sounded like he'd heard that he can be more susceptible even after a proper healing period and all, but maybe he meant otherwise.

 

[diverokc]

I could have sworn doc piccolo said you are more suscpetable to it after having it once. I just figured it was like when i had pneumonia you get more suscpebtable to it after having it once. I know he suggested nitrox. Maybe because after having it once you show you may get it easier than some. Everyones body is different.

 

[Mossman]

But more importantly, find a doctor with dive medicine in his or her resume or call DAN - at least for a reference.

Maybe, but what would this really accomplish? I suppose he could get a PFO test and subsequent closure if he wanted (and could get his insurance to pay or otherwise had a deep pocket). But can a doc, even a super hyperbaric doc with x-ray vision, do any sort of test by the time this guy gets home that would tell him whether the pain in his side on this trip was due to DCS or whether it was a pulled muscle? Even if he goes to a hyperbaric doc on Cozumel today, could he be affirmatively diagnosed with DCS without sticking him in a chamber (and even then the diagnosis wouldn't be certain as hyperbaric oxygen might resolve a pulled muscle)?

I certainly don't want to dissuade anyone from seeing a medical professional for any reason whatsoever, but in this particular case, can that medical professional do anything besides scratch his or her head and say "I dunno..."? And honestly, I dunno either. If there are tests that can show positive evidence of a previous incidence of mild DCS, I totally stand corrected, but I'd imagine any bubble damage would have to be pretty extensive before it would show up on any sort of scan.

Googling a bit, I did find this at How to diagnose DCI, decompression sickness / DCS / decompression illness / DCI / diving and the bends, London Recompression & Hyperbaric facilities - The London Diving Chamber. "Milking the muscle", that must be a British term Still, I doubt this will help by the time he gets home and gets an appointment with that hyperbaric doc.

• Diagnostic techniques - Pain, frequently musculoskeletal, is present in a substantial number of DCI cases. In one series 57.8% two specific techniques that can aid the practitioner in diagnosing DCI are:
  • Placing a large BP cuff over the area of pain and inflating it to 150-250 mm Hg. In the patient with nitrogen bubbling in the joint or tendons, this increase can force some of the nitrogen back into solution, resulting in a temporary decrease in pain.
  • Milking the muscle toward the affected joint may increase pain by pushing more nitrogen bubbles toward the joint.

 

[Christi]

You hadn't provided any basis for the bogus courses - now you have. I had not seen any of this - so I stand corrected. And I didn't accuse you of anything - that was stated as a question to you - was it based on some facts or did you assume?

WHen I refer to your implications that shops (not me specifically) overcharge - IMO - when you refer to negotiating cheaper rates, etc. - to me that is implying that we are overcharging to begin with - just my opinion and viewpoint on these things.

Thank you for the clarification though - it does help a lot

Like you, I was not familiar with his history - so I answered the DCS question very generally - but it is true that depending on the type of hit, recovery time, etc. - some peopel can be more prone to getting it again!

Oh good grief...!

An assumption on my part...?!

Yes, sure - a course & card with an accredited agency would be fine, except that not's 100% accurate. Who is to say that an agency is accredited? Some leading agencies are not members of RSTC. Anyway, the infamous ones to avoid are SDA or Scuba Divers of America, OnlineScubaLessons.com, Aquastrophics, and there are others. See...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...365912-100%-nitrox-class-online-thoughts.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/q-scuba-certification-agencies/244053-enriched-air-cert-online.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...iving/242958-onlinescubalessons-com-scam.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/192712-online-nitrox-sda.html

And others. There has been a lot of discussion about bogus online courses. I guess you weren't aware, but accusing me of assuming was lame.

Plus warnings about SDA at http://www.padi.com/scuba/about-pad...onsumer-alerts/special-advisories/Dive-Shops/
​

As I so often do...?!

I really cannot think of anytime that I have thought that you overcharged for your top line services, much less suggested that - and I just don't think I have. I know that you supply much more than the cheaper operators, and I have no problems at all with your charges. Indeed, I saw your post above that dives were not required. I did not know that you do include those. I was thinking about what some of the stateside shops charge, but enough.


Which would not apply to his case. It sounded like he'd heard that he can be more susceptible even after a proper healing period and all, but maybe he meant otherwise.

 

[Mossman]

I could have sworn doc piccolo said you are more suscpetable to it after having it once. I just figured it was like when i had pneumonia you get more suscpebtable to it after having it once. I know he suggested nitrox. Maybe because after having it once you show you may get it easier than some. Everyones body is different.

It is theorized that divers with PFOs are more likely to suffer DCS hits and likely, though not proven, that many "undeserved" hits may be caused by a PFO. If that were the case, that a higher percentage of divers with PFOs get bent than divers without PFOs, then a diver with a PFO who got bent would "get it easier than some" the next time. But that's not because he or she got bent, it's because he or she has a PFO.

Actually, that could be said about any predisposing physiological condition. If a particular diver had some unknown or unsuspected condition that did in fact cause the DCS, that particular diver would likely be at more risk of getting DCS in the future if that predisposing condition were not resolved. Again, that's not because of the DCS, but because of the predisposing condition.

But if someone just got bent from violating a stop or ascending too fast and no permanent damage was done, after that diver fully heals, there shouldn't be any reason why they'd be more susceptible in the future.

 

[Brules]

Just got back from 9 days in cozumel. Had a great trip except had a pain come back in my side after the fourth day. I had the same pain in sept. , but didn't know what it was , went diving the next day and ended up in chamber. I dove in november just fine, but had the pain this trip. I had been told i should get nitrox cert. since people are more susceptable to the bends after you get it once. I don't know why i had the pain this trip, but i just stopped diving. So as far as getting nitrox cert. is it just classwork or are there dives associated with it. Be back in june so gonna do my nitrox by then hopefully. Thanks for any tips

I'm from OKC as well - go see Allen @ Blue Water Divers there and take their Nitrox class. Worth every penny. I did it years ago with them and I dive all 2nd tanks as nitrox just for kicks, helps lower nitrogen loading and I don't feel near as tired by the end of a week of diving.

With your issues, I would possibly dive it all tanks and stay above the depth limit....

But anyways, Blue Water in OKC will do a great job with the class and teaching you about how to read tanks in their shop with an analyzer.

 

[cvchief]

My LDS is big into independent learning. I got the Padi book and video. Watched it, filled out the book. Then I drove to meet an instructor and take the test. Testing took 15 minutes? Drove over an hour to the shop.....

But well worth it for bottom time and a small margin of safety. Oh course we also subscribe to the "less tired when diving nitrox" thing....

Besides, the last thing I want to do is have to milk my muscle.... <Insert sophomoric laugh>

 

[DandyDon]

I could have sworn doc piccolo said you are more suscpetable to it after having it once. I just figured it was like when i had pneumonia you get more suscpebtable to it after having it once. I know he suggested nitrox. Maybe because after having it once you show you may get it easier than some. Everyones body is different.

He might have, but I do not know of any DAN studies that support that claim - so I wondered? If there is any truth to it, it probably has more to do with the diver's approach to diving - but that's just my personal guess, which I would readily agree is just table talk.

Even PFO risks are highly debatable. There's a 25-35% chance that you and/or I have one just because we are humans and they are that common - and even if you did learn that you did, DAN still does not generally suggest repairs or changes in diving. We don't see nearly that many divers taking hits tho, in fact the instance is so rare that it's difficult to do studies. Computer downloads of your dives before your hit might show possible causes, but often they go down as unexplained.

It's certainly a good idea to get your Nitrox card as it's a good tool, more so for square bottom wreck dives than multilevel reef plans - but good to have the card in case you want to do any day's plans. I got mine 10 years ago and paid then as much a Christi charges now, but I was into wreck diving then and really wanted the extra bottom time. In those days I hated being on the same wreck dive boat with air dives because the skipper would impose longer SIs for everyone because of them, and I certainly hated having one for a bud since I had to ascend with him, making my Nitrox worthless. Unlike the Chief there, I do not think it helps at all with general fatigue - but it can't hurt.

 

[richdrogpa]

I dive all 2nd tanks as nitrox just for kicks, helps lower nitrogen loading and I don't feel near as tired by the end of a week of diving.

^^^ This I personally think Nitrox and Search & Rescue are the two most important recreational diver's courses beyond OW certification, worth every penny!!!