Calling all Whites Fusion divers

[LowDrag]

My wife and I just got our Fusions last night and I have a few questions about mine. She hasn't tried hers on yet so we may have the same questions or different ones for hers. SO, here we go with the questions:

Starting at the top...

1. Even after trimming the neck seal will I still feel like I have a Boa Constrictor tightening it's grip on my throat?

2. I have fairly broad shoulders and had an interesting time getting my shoulders into the suit. Normal or not normal? After getting in all
was fine as far as the fit goes.

3. What kind of zipper wax do you use? One of the LDS guys said I should not use the wax that came with the suits.

4. Should the footies on the suit be like a size 16 (or maybe 20) when I ordered size 12 for my rock boots?

5. Not sure if this is a concern or not but the Fusion undergarment fit very close. Not overly tight but there wasn't any
slop to it.

6. And the Dry Lock Glove System thingy...that was a brain teaser for me last night. We got the SLT package and the dry gloves and
there is not anything that shows how to match the two together in the instructions. I am thinking I have to remove the inner ring for the SLT stuff and replace with the Dry Lock ring but being a total dry suit newb I am a bit hesitant about pulling stuff apart.

The suit went on pretty much as shown in the video on YouTube until I got to the zipper and the shoulders...hmmm...that was interesting... and the same with the fusion undergarment. Getting my shoulders thru the zipper was fun too.


Thanks for any info posted...

 

[TSandM]

Did you get the latex or silicone seals? Latex seals should be mildly uncomfortable when new, but shouldn't be so tight that your face turns purple.

For me, the key to the shoulders is to get the arm pulled well up. This involves reaching down into the sleeve and pulling the bag from the inside, just like you have to do with the legs. Once the arm is really pulled up, it shouldn't be too difficult to get the shoulders placed.

I use the ZipTech zipper wax, and the MaxTech. I have both, and which I use depends on which container is handiest. DON'T use a silicone lubricant -- it may preclude replacing the zipper.

The socks on the Fusion are cut way oversized so that they will fit the entire range of sizes the suit is designed for. You can either push your foot to the front of the sock before putting it in the boot (which I don't like, because then the friction of putting the boot on makes them pull on my toes) or you can allow the extra fabric to wad up in the front of the boot (which is why my boots are ordered a size bigger than I actually need).

Did you get the Thermal Fusion undergarment? If so, it's form-fitting. It's so flexible that it works great that way.

I can't help you with the Glove Lock system, because I don't use it.

 

[LowDrag]

Thanks Lynne. The shoulder question is more about getting into the suit. After that bottleneck it seems to fit just fine. For the most part I think it is "dry suit newbie" jitters...LOL!!! We have class tomorrow night, pool on Friday and then a check out dive on Sunday. Looking forward to getting wet/dry this weekend.

 

[00wabbit]

Here is a thread on the gloves. Go down 3 or 4 comments to find my post and look at the second video for how to attach the glove rings.
As the other commenter said the Undergarment fits close to the body. It should be completely flexible though and not restrict your arm movements or arching your back with your knees bent.

AS for the arms make sure you get the suit all the way up. Sometimes the velcro on the suspenders hangs a little where it attaches to the inner suit and you have to guide it though a little to get the suit to come up more.

Fusions arent the sexiest drysuits but I really like mine.

I use the lube that came with the suit. Also get a talc bag to talc the seals.
The neck suit shouldn't turn your face red. Discuss with your instructor and bring your scissors to class. Maybe it needs to be trimmed a bit more. Ask your instructor before you go too far.

Once you get the fusion on, hook it up to a tank and pump it up with air. It will then settle into place and feel very comfortable. This happens naturally once you do your first dive because you add air for bouyancy.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/whites-manufacturing/447200-instructions-attach-si-tech-dry-glove-system-whites-fusion-tech-slt-system.html

 

[KShandkman]

After visiting the lake this weekend, I am also interested in this Dry Suit. My shop recommended it. I understand there is a few price points that these suits come in. My questions (Not to hijack your thread) is which one will be better suited for me? I am studying to become a dive instructor, so I would like something that is going to last and not break the bank. Enough to keep me warm when I am hitting the thermoclines in the lake. I also would like to hear any more reviews and experiences you may have.

 

[kmurray719]

Thanks Lynne. The shoulder question is more about getting into the suit. After that bottleneck it seems to fit just fine. For the most part I think it is "dry suit newbie" jitters...LOL!!! We have class tomorrow night, pool on Friday and then a check out dive on Sunday. Looking forward to getting wet/dry this weekend.

I was joking with an instructor a few weeks ago about adding "fusion donning dance" instructions to the drysuit course...there's a particular move that involves some shoulder shrugging/rotation and some little hops that seems to work best for getting the arm in the sleeve and shoulder in place Your experience in getting the arms in/shoulders on is not unusual at all. I've found that donning the suit in general gets quicker and smoother as time goes on.

 

[mathauck0814]

You're more or less experiencing what I would say is normal for that suit. It's a nightmare to get on and off and not terribly comfortable above board. In the water, it's great. If you can stomach the surface time in it, it'll be fine. I couldn't and switched to another more user friendly suit that was equally comfortable in and out of the water (that didn't take so much effort to get in and out of).

 

[00wabbit]

You're more or less experiencing what I would say is normal for that suit. It's a nightmare to get on and off and not terribly comfortable above board. In the water, it's great. If you can stomach the surface time in it, it'll be fine. I couldn't and switched to another more user friendly suit that was equally comfortable in and out of the water (that didn't take so much effort to get in and out of).

I don't find it a nightmare at all. I take a tad longer than the dui fellows but if you follow the video its gets easier and quicker. I find it quite comfortable to wear between dives once I have had air in it to settle it into position. Many times I don't even un zip it between dives.


To the previous comments asking about which one to get. The bullet skin is the most durable and might be best if you are spending a lot of time on your knees with students. You can start cheaper with the sport skin version and then buy the bullet skin later to change out. I have the bullet and I will be buying the sport skin for travel to florida because it is lighter.

As for Warmth. The drysuit keeps you dry. Warmth comes from what you wear underneath the drysuit. I wore it in a heated pool with only swimshorts and a wicking t-shirt. I have worn it in 38 degree water with underarmor cold, thermal fusion undergarment, 3mil neoprene socks and hiking socks and stayed warm as well.

 

[TravisD]

I just started diving dry (Fusion Bullet) this year (about 6 dives so far?) so take this with the appropriate grain of salt.

Neck seal - I have the silicone seal, and elected not to trim them since I heard that they loosen up a bit. The first dive I was a bit worried since it definitely felt tight and constricting - though checking with others with experience, I didn't have the red face that indicated being too tight. After a couple of dives it seems perfect and I don't really notice it any more. For reference, I have a 17 or 18" neck?

Shoulders - I wear a 54 jacket, with a 48" chest measurement. I was worried about the shoulders as well, but I've gotten used to it. I just make sure that the rest of the suit if pulled up as far as it'll go, and I pull the arm out a little first to straighten out the suit material. Once I get my hand started down the sleeve, I just push it down and bring my arm up to seat things. There seems to be plenty of room in the zipper to allow for this, and I haven't felt like I'm overstressing anything. Remember that the skin is stretchy and will give you some resistance.

Wax - I use the orange stuff that White's supplied. Supposedly it contains some silicone, which i imagine could cause a problem if you ever have to replace the zip? I don't think it gets close enough to the silicone seals to cause a reaction unless you're WAY too generous with it. FWIW, I think I've waxed the zipper more times than I've actually dived the suit at this point, but it seem to have gotten to the point where it works smoothly and doesn't need more than a touchup now and then.

Socks - yeah, these are the same size (big) with the expectation that the boots you wear over them will take up the excess. I have the Fusion boots velcroed on and don't notice the extra at this point. Keep in mind that the suits are cut to fit a wide range.

Undies - form fitting is good, as long as you don't compromise range of motion. The TF is very stretchy overall; Others that aren't stretchy material should have stretch panels in key places. If you can squat down and reach reach back for valves, etc without feeling like you're going to bust a seam, you're doing well it would seem. Excess material can bunch up and get in the way (last thing you want is a wad of material someplace uncomfortable for a whole dive)

Glove lock - watch the videos that DRIS posts and they explain it the best, though keep in mind that Mike confuses the systems on at least one video (Quick Clamp vs Glove Lock). Also find the video on how to remove the inner "stiff ring" from factory installed seals before you cause yourself days of finger pain like I did. Short answer is that you need to actually bend down the inner portion of the outer ring and it will pop out the stiff right nicely. On the good side though, it's a great way to gain confidence that the rings are in fact pretty darn secure. The videos are 100x more helpful than the instructions that come with the system. While on the subject, I've noticed that I pick up a LOT of grit and grime on the sealing surface of the suit-side rings (the glove ring O-ring actually seals on the inside surface of the adaptor ring). This is a lubed surface (with the chapstick that comes with it) so I've found that I need to take some time after I suit up to clean this surface a bit. If I just use my fingers to clean it, it seems to leave enough lube to work (doesn't take much) but don't forget to keep a very thin coat of it on there so that the o-ring doesn't pinch up.

I felt very awkward at first, but the learning curve is steep. What felt like it was trying to choke me on my first dive ended up comfortable enough to sit around on the surface for a couple of hours doing surface support while they sank a plane in the quarry by dive 6. I would suggest though that if you don't NEED the dry gloves right away that you consider skipping them at first. They add a whole other layer of "different" to things as far as dexterity goes. Wet gloves will work fine (assuming the water isn't too cold) and if they're what you're used too, you don't be fumbling as much. After a couple of dives, add 'em in and you should be fine.

Don't forget to check the fit on your other accessories as well. I picked up the DSS bungie mounts for my computer and compass expecting to need them for the move to the fusion, and I'm glad I did. The strap size for wet vs dry is pretty different, and I"m pretty sure that the "captive" strap on the stock SK7 mount would have never gotten over the glove rings. I used almost two yards of bungie setting up two DSS mounts, and thought I was over-generous but found they're just about perfect. I also neglected to lengthen the straps on my BP the first couple of dives, and that didn't help my overall comfort (I'm not used to having to adjust them, so it just didn't occur to me)

Finally, even if you're doing warm-water pool work, try and have some sort of base layer on. If you have any exposed skin at all, it'll stick to the drycore. I almost got stuck trying on the suit at the White's booth at BeneathTheSea this year since I just had on a t-shirt and jeans. With just minimal perspiration, my arms managed to glue themselves to the bad pretty nicely. A wicking layer (like UnderArmour, or the knock-offs) works nicely and you can use it under the thermals as well for actual cold water dives. I felt like I could tell the difference warmth-wise between using the UA Cold Gear and not, but it does have the drawback of being yet another constricting layer (I was using the compression cut stuff).

-t

 

[mathauck0814]

I don't find it a nightmare at all. I take a tad longer than the dui fellows but if you follow the video its gets easier and quicker. I find it quite comfortable to wear between dives once I have had air in it to settle it into position. Many times I don't even un zip it between dives.

Agreed - you won't get into or out of it as fast as the DUI guys. I prefer to take the suit off entirely between dives (California. Sunshine. Warmth. Flip flops. Comfort.) which is a PITA in the Fusion. I did a little more than 400 dives in my Fusion before I gave it the heave-ho and had a custom suit built (for about half the cost, frankly). One of the best decisions I've ever made insofar as diving is concerned.