Waiver for diving on a private boat?

[Wookie]

Or do you require spousal consent also?

You can't in Florida. It isn't binding on a spouse to release an operator for the loss of the loved one. It is legal in Texas, however. In Florida, only the participant may be the releasor.

 

[Nick A]

To add to the pot.. if you're taking folks out diving, are they going to help with fuel or any costs for that matter? If that is the case then the state or coast guard or the federalies can look upon your operation as a charter service. Which can open a whole new can of worms. If you're absorbing all the costs, then its no big deal. It may not be a big deal regardless, but if SHTF, it may come up.

 

[redacted]

You can't in Florida. It isn't binding on a spouse to release an operator for the loss of the loved one. It is legal in Texas, however. In Florida, only the participant may be the releasor.

My impression is that it is never a clear yes or no but there is a good deal of variability in the way states handle things like this. There are a few state that do not honor waivers at all.

And even in TX, where one might be able to waive a spouses rights; the children are a separate and different case.

 

[scubamaverick]

To add to the pot.. if you're taking folks out diving, are they going to help with fuel or any costs for that matter? If that is the case then the state or coast guard or the federalies can look upon your operation as a charter service. Which can open a whole new can of worms. If you're absorbing all the costs, then its no big deal. It may not be a big deal regardless, but if SHTF, it may come up.

I had thought about that. At what point does it become a "commercial operation" which is NOT my intent. I just want to take buddies diving like all the other private boats here.

Anyone have any knowledge on this in FL?

 

[Splash-X]

Waiver aside, if you're planning on taking people out are you planning on carrying liability insurance?

 

[Keith.M]

I just want to take buddies diving like all the other private boats here.

This is a pretty interesting topic, I hope others chime in that do take buddies out on their private boat.

One thought I had in regards to waivers is that in the process of trying to protect yourself from liability with waivers for your buddies to sign, the more you make yourself look like a charter.

I go on an annual camping trip every year that involves many other families. Some folks have jet ski's, some have boats, some have quads and motorcycles. We all use each others stuff and the thought of liability has really never come up but I could see it applying in just the way you are thinking.

I would seek out other private boat owners in the area and talk with them and see what they are doing.

 

[iluvtheocean]

it was dicussed recently in another thread --- you can ask for someone to chip in for gas/food/drink etc and it won't be considered a charter -- it becomes a charter when payment is required to go on the boat.. i would recommend having good liability insurance -- your insurance company can recommend how much. this is just like was said earlier - it's like giving a friend a car ride and asking to chip for gas - you aren't considered a taxi. there are a couple of people around here that do take SB/Meetup members out on their boats - in fact i'd love myself to do a dive with you on your boat being so close
some require at least AOW to go on the trips --

the majority of the divers and their families understand that this is considered a "high-risk" sport and stuff happens... yes you may get idiots that might want to sue.. but those are everywhere. take basic precautions such as if whomever is diving nitrox has analyzed the tanks and mod marked - basic dive plan for everyone (even it's be up with 500 psi or more). if the idiots go deeper than their MOD -- it's not your fault

 

[Nick A]

it was dicussed recently in another thread --- you can ask for someone to chip in for gas/food/drink etc and it won't be considered a charter -- it becomes a charter when payment is required to go on the boat..

I've heard if any money changes hands, even if it is only a couple bucks for fuel, it can be considered a charter service from a liability stand point.

 

[Wookie]

To add to the pot.. if you're taking folks out diving, are they going to help with fuel or any costs for that matter? If that is the case then the state or coast guard or the federalies can look upon your operation as a charter service. Which can open a whole new can of worms. If you're absorbing all the costs, then its no big deal. It may not be a big deal regardless, but if SHTF, it may come up.

From the latest guidance on what is a passenger from the Coast Guard: (21a) 'passenger for hire' means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.".

That means, if your brother-in-lay wants to buy your tank of gas, you may accept. If you tell your brother-in-law that he has to share gas, he is a passenger.

Here is the actual law from the US Code:


SEC. 506. PASSENGER FOR HIRE.
Section 2101 of title 46, United States Code, is amended by inserting between paragraphs (21) and (22) a new paragraph (21a) to read as follows:

"(21a) 'passenger for hire' means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.".


DESCRIPTION - The determination of what constitutes the carriage of a "passenger for hire" must be made on a case by case basis. This determination is dependent upon the actual operation of a vessel and the flow of consideration as determined by the facts of each case. In general, there needs to be some form of tangible consideration or promise of performance being passed for a "passenger for hire" situation to exist.

SEC. 507. CONSIDERATION.

Section 2101 of title 46, United States Code, is amended by inserting between paragraphs (5) and (6) a new paragraph (5a) to read as follows:

"(5a) 'consideration' means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.".


DESCRIPTION - Section 507 amends 46 U.S.C. 2101 by adding a definition of the term "consideration." Although this term was used in the prior definition of a "passenger," it was not previously defined by statute. Generally, some tangible amount of worth exchanged for carriage on a vessel such as payment, exchange of goods or a promise of performance is required. "Consideration" does not include a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of a voyage. Additionally, employees or business clients that have not contributed for their carriage, and are carried for morale or entertainment purposes is not included as exchange of consideration.





---------- Post added September 16th, 2013 at 12:32 PM ----------

And even in TX, where one might be able to waive a spouses rights; the children are a separate and different case.

Correct. Florida, too.

 

[H20Flyer]

From the latest guidance on what is a passenger from the Coast Guard: (21a) 'passenger for hire' means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.".

That means, if your brother-in-lay wants to buy your tank of gas, you may accept. If you tell your brother-in-law that he has to share gas, he is a passenger.

Here is the actual law from the US Code:


SEC. 506. PASSENGER FOR HIRE.
Section 2101 of title 46, United States Code, is amended by inserting between paragraphs (21) and (22) a new paragraph (21a) to read as follows:

"(21a) 'passenger for hire' means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.".


DESCRIPTION - The determination of what constitutes the carriage of a "passenger for hire" must be made on a case by case basis. This determination is dependent upon the actual operation of a vessel and the flow of consideration as determined by the facts of each case. In general, there needs to be some form of tangible consideration or promise of performance being passed for a "passenger for hire" situation to exist.

SEC. 507. CONSIDERATION.

Section 2101 of title 46, United States Code, is amended by inserting between paragraphs (5) and (6) a new paragraph (5a) to read as follows:

"(5a) 'consideration' means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.".


DESCRIPTION - Section 507 amends 46 U.S.C. 2101 by adding a definition of the term "consideration." Although this term was used in the prior definition of a "passenger," it was not previously defined by statute. Generally, some tangible amount of worth exchanged for carriage on a vessel such as payment, exchange of goods or a promise of performance is required. "Consideration" does not include a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of a voyage. Additionally, employees or business clients that have not contributed for their carriage, and are carried for morale or entertainment purposes is not included as exchange of consideration.





---------- Post added September 16th, 2013 at 12:32 PM ----------



Correct. Florida, too.

That's interesting because in the world of aircraft you don't have to have a commercial license and the flight is not considered commercial if there is no compensation to the pilot. Meaning everyone can chip in on the gas or the rental and it is not a commerical flight. However you cannot charge someone as a passenger in the airplane.

I guess all the regulated activities are different. So I guess telling a group of friends, "Do you all want to chip in for gas and go diving this weekend?" would be considered a "charter". That's kinda screwed up.