You've either got horrible vision in the first place, or a horrible mask, or your definition of "just fine" is way, way, WAY off. What you're saying is just not possible.
Can you just hold your nose?
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You've either got horrible vision in the first place, or a horrible mask, or your definition of "just fine" is way, way, WAY off. What you're saying is just not possible.
OP
Skittl1321
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Seriously? No one has ever swam without goggles/mask on? You can still read a watch under water.
Distance vision is better with a mask; but thus far, I've never dove anywhere where you could see in the distance, so it has been a non-issue.
Distance vision is better with a mask; but thus far, I've never dove anywhere where you could see in the distance, so it has been a non-issue.
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Skittl1321
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I basically freaked out any time I had to remove the regulator from my mouth. The class moved way too fast for me and there were times I felt unsafe and truly scared (which resulted in above water panic attacks and hyperventilating, and bolting to the surface a number of times; at least I remembered to exhale). I did all the skills and passed the portion of the class, but asked to go back and repeat the confined water dives, which thankfully the shop allowed me (I think they were glad I asked, actually. I would have to have been delusional to think I was ready for OW. I don't really understand why they passed me. One other woman and a kid did not pass, so it's not like it was automatic.). Things went better the second time around, my only problem came from an octo that leaked horribly and I bolted; and OW dives were non-eventful, except for refusing to take my mask off (which I did eventually do).
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
I have swam under water (maskless) and unless I am in a pool with nice clear water, I am unable to read my computer underwater. I wear corrective lenses however my prescription is not significant.....and in anything but a pool, once the mask comes off, vision is seriously impaired. This may not be the same for everybody, but your "position" is not either.
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Skittl1321
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I'm thinking of swimming in a lake. I haven't tried reading my computer under water without a mask (see: don't like to be without mask while on scuba) but I know for certain I can read the settings on my underwater camera. I swim with contacts in. I've never lost one. My prescription is signifigant, but for distance.
Either way- my point is visibility is not the issue I have. It might be why other people fear losing their mask, but that is not my problem right now. People pick up the most ridiculous things to rip people on on these forums. It is irrelevant whether or not a computer can be read under water. It in NO WAY has anything to do with the issue I have. I'm not even at the point where I'm worrying about visibility. Whether I can see under water, or you can't doesn't matter.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
I was not comfortable with mask off functions while on scuba for a while. Quite frankly I got my certification but would say that IMO I just barely covered the standards (as I now interpret them). I performed the tasks in OW but was FAR from comfortable with it. So, I got into a pool and started doing laps with a snorkel and no mask. Then I took my kit into the pool and did mask drills. Then I practiced them while neutral. All working up to being comfortable doing a mask drill in OW while hovering neutral. So, while I am all but blind underwater once my mask comes off, I am comfortable with it. Cold water maskless still gets my anxiety up just a little. Just a little though.
Work through it however you need to. But like I did, I am sure you will get past it.
I see.
The definition of "having" a skill in the PADI system is that a skill can be done correctly and repeatedly and comfortably. Every skill you learned should have been measured to this bar. There can be times during the training when it's "rough" but it shouldn't still feel rough by the time you're finished.
When I hear that you were constantly on the edge of panic and that, "The class moved way too fast" and "I don't really understand why they passed me".... then it makes me think that your instructor not only broke standards by rushing you through and signing off on skills that were not yet mastered but that they really don't give a rat's patoot about your safety and/or whether or not you are competent to dive.
It sounds like you may have sorted some of it out over the dives you've made since you were certified but it makes me angry as hell to think that your instructor basically threw you in the proverbial deep end and let you figure it out for yourself.
For your own good, I can tell you that there *are* good instructors around but from what I'm hearing here I would strongly advise you *not* to go back to that shop for further training. You have residual training issues, which is no fault of yours, that need sorting out by someone who knows what the hell he's doing.
As for holding the nose. Sure, go ahead for now... .and look for someone to help you with follow up training to who can get you to a point that it's not a concern.
R..
Three thoughts come to mind: 1. You are not alone. If there is one particular skill or set of skills that I have seen present the most challenge to OW students (and some newer OW divers) it is the flooded / removed mask skills; 2. I am intrigued by the disconnect between the pool and OW experiences. Out of curiosity, was there a big difference in water temperature? I find that cold water (which is often the situation during the OW dives) presents a bigger challenge for no mask breathing than warm water; 3. Comfortable, effective no mask breathing is very much dependent on good airway control. And, airway control is without question a developed / practiced skill. For a few it comes naturally, or at least they don't have to think about it, But for many, it is a skill developed through application of technique, AND through regular practice. You have received a lot of good advice of technique. If you continue to work at it, in small steps, you can develop airway control and you will find your anxiety will dissipate. It may not happen immediately, it may take months. But, you can do it with practice.
There is no physiologic reason that you cannot hold your nose. In the OW course, we do not want students to hold their nose because it may undermine the development of airway control. Holding your nose is also not ideal in a 'real life' situation, because it occupies one of your hands, which you may need for another action (if you lose your mask and begin an ascent to end the dive, your left hand is occupied by your low pressure inflator, and if your right hand is squeezing your nostrils, you have no hand available to do anything else (grip an ascent line, access your spare mask, etc.) But, you can hold your nose if absolutely required in a real life, mask loss situation. (A similar situation exists with the regulator recovery skill. If the second stage comes out of your mouth, there is no reason that you cannot immediately deploy your octo and breath from that while recovering your primary. But, we have students practice recovering their primary without going to the octo, to help them develop the skill, and confidence in their ability to recover the primary.)
I cannot speak for the recommended techniques of other agencies, but the PADI recommendation (in the Guide to Teaching) is to have students learn to inhale through their mouth and exhale through their nose. That is what you were exposed to in your training. Ultimately, that is the degree of airway control that I would like to have all divers develop. It may be, however, that the small, incremental steps necessary to help a diver achieve that level of skill include starting with inhalation and exhalation through the mouth, after which they move to inhalation through the mouth, and exhalation through the nose.
If you can get into a pool, by all means do so, and practice while standing in shallow water, or kneel / lay on the bottom in shallow water, take your mask off and practice both methods (exhalation through the mouth, and through the nose). This can be done standing in the water with just a snorkel as several have mentioned. When done with scuba gear, one thing that I find is helpful to some is to tilt the head slightly to one side, to keep the bubbles - coming either out of the exhaust T on the second stage, or from the nose - from tickling you nose / face / eyes and prompting a desire to inhale through the nostrils. Since your troubles were in OW more than the pool, if you can go to an OW site with a shallow entry area, and do the same - in scuba gear, take your mask off and lay on the bottom and breath, then perhaps swim around a bit - it may help. Or, just stand in shallow water with a snorkel and put you face in the water and breathe.
I can empathize to an extent, because of my own experience during tec training. We had to do out of air, no mask swimming drills. At depth, we would remove our mask, signal out of air, and then swim on a donated second stage while being guided by our buddy. We did the drills in a cold, dark quarry (water temps at 50 feet were in the high 40s) and that skill practice produced the most stress of any scuba skill I have ever learned. I absolutely hated breathing without a mask in very cold water. And, while I was able meet the performance requirements, I won't say I was very comfortable. Recognizing that situation was a potential safety issue, and that I needed to continue to refine the skill after tec certification, I now force myself to go to a local quarry and practice cold water, no mask breathing regularly - I drop to a platform at 90 feet, where the water is in the low 40s, and take my mask off and breathe for 5-10 minutes, then put the mask back on. It was not pleasant at first (for that matter, it is still not 'pleasant'), but over a period of a year or more I developed the ability to breath without a mask in very cold water without anxiety.
Try some of the techniques that have been recommended, go to an OW site and practice in shallow water - if you get water up your nose at first, just stand up, clear your nose and start again. It may take time but it will be worth it.
I'll be honest, when someone says "I've never noticed a difference" in visibility underwater with or without a mask... I sort of have to wonder how accurate their assesment of anything else might be.
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