Atomic B1 Upgrades

[52brandon]

I know there's been some similar threads, but I've searched through them and probably read them all before creating this thread. I'm new to scuba. I am putting together all my own gear. As I'm sure isn't uncommon, I'm trying to put together a great kit for as cheap as I can. This particular thread is about my regulator setup. I purchased a used Atomic B1 1st and 2nd stage regulator. It is in pretty much perfect shape. I plan to upgrade some pieces to make it as efficient and current as possible. I have read through a lot of this board before signing up and deciding to post this. I found a LOT of great information. I would like to get some input from you guys about what I plan to do. So without further delay. Here's what I'm doing:

I purchased the used B1 1st and 2nd stage for $240 delivered. I read a lot of reviews and differences between this and the more current models like the B1, M1, T2/T3. This setup seemed pretty much perfect for me. I'm not worried about the 1st stage being stainless as opposed to Ti. It will be strapped to my back, so the weight is negligible, SS is better than Ti for use with nitrox (which I will be getting certified in), and the price is obviously a pretty substantial difference too. And having the Ti 2nd stage will keep it more comfortable on my jaw. As mentioned before, the condition is about as close to new as you can expect in a regulator that old. The downside is that I need to upgrade some stuff in order to keep up with some of the more current regs.

First, I plan to add an M1 color kit. That way I can replace the exhaust deflector and the purge cover with ones that are said to be much more efficient. In doing this, I also make my B1 capable of using the stainless cave ring that is made for the M1, which is supposedly almost a must when cave diving.

Second, I plan to do the jet-seat conversion on my 1st stage. As I was shopping for it, I was under the impression that it was only available in SS. But just found out it is also available in monel. The SS kit is $70 and the monel kit is $100. Is it worth the $30 difference for the monel kit? I know it's more corrosion resistant, so I'm guessing "yes", but figured I'd ask to be sure.

Third, I had planned to upgrade to the B2 swivel hose, but read that the miflex hose is just as good an upgrade for like half the price. So I plan on going that route unless there's a reason to go with the swivel hose instead? My thought was to get a 5' for my primary and an 8' for my secondary (unless I get a BCD inflator/secondary instead. Which I'll be asking about next)

Fourth, I want a new mouthpiece. Using a used one isn't all that appealing to me. I was looking at the Comfo-bite and the Seacure X Type. The Comfo-bit is like $7 and the Seacure is $30. Anybody have experience with both? Is the seacure worth the extra $? It seems very nice, but with the Ti 2nd stage and miflex hoses, I don't think I NEED that precise of a mouthpiece. But if it's still that much more comfortable, I don't mind paying the extra $23. What do you guys think?

Fifth, I need an alternate air source. I'm debating a BCD inflator/secondary or a traditional octopus with the separate inflator. What is your opinion on the matter. I'm sure the inflator/secondary is lighter and less clutter, but is it worth it, or should I go with an octopus and separate inflator. And why?

And lastly, I think, is to add the M1 cave ring kit. I don't think I need it until I get better at diving. But I do plan on adding it at some point. I read the SS ring is a big upgrade for cave diving, which I do plan to do a lot of once I get good enough.

Obviously, I will be getting my reg serviced before I dive with it too. Should I get it sealed or not? I will be diving both fresh and salt water. I don't plan on going terribly cold for a while yet, as I don't have the exposure suits to do it yet. How often should I have my reg serviced? That will give me an idea of whether I should just wait for next time to have it sealed. Also, should I get the tools to do it myself or just have a local shop do it? My dad and my brother are also getting into diving, I think it would probably be a better value to get the tools and learn it myself. Depending on how difficult it is. I'm pretty capable of working on my own stuff, I've done all my own upgrades and maintenance on my motorcycle, my guns, etc. But I really don't have any idea how difficult this is.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. I would also love to hear any other suggestions and ideas you guys have that I could do. My logic is that after completely upgrading this, I will have spent close to the same as the price of a new one, but it will be custom and exactly what I want, which none of the ones out of the box are. Plus I love doing stuff myself

 

[SeaCure]

I am a little biased, but a SeaCure mouthpiece is definitely worth the money. We just got back from the big DEMA dive show and had many, many people come to the booth and tell us that they couldn't dive without a SeaCure, best dive money ever spent and on and on. A SeaCure offers comfort and security - what is more important to a diver?

 

[knotical]

re: mouthpieces - A viable option is the Trident R530 moldable mouthpiece, my favorite. It's less expensive than SeaCure and doesn't have the issues of the length that triggers the gag reflex in some users, or the harder plastic where you attach it to your second stage and is hard to cinch with a tie-wrap.
A downside to any moldable mouthpiece is if you donate your primary, in which case the comfo-bite rules.

You didn't mention the piston upgrade. Was that already done in the B1 you bought?

Your other choices seem reasonable to me.

 

[52brandon]

I am a little biased, but a SeaCure mouthpiece is definitely worth the money. We just got back from the big DEMA dive show and had many, many people come to the booth and tell us that they couldn't dive without a SeaCure, best dive money ever spent and on and on. A SeaCure offers comfort and security - what is more important to a diver?

lol, understandably

re: mouthpieces - A viable option is the Trident R530 moldable mouthpiece, my favorite. It's less expensive than SeaCure and doesn't have the issues of the length that triggers the gag reflex in some users, or the harder plastic where you attach it to your second stage and is hard to cinch with a tie-wrap.
A downside to any moldable mouthpiece is if you donate your primary, in which case the comfo-bite rules.

You didn't mention the piston upgrade. Was that already done in the B1 you bought?

Your other choices seem reasonable to me.

I thought I covered that when I said "jet seat conversion". I thought that's what it was called, a jet seat piston? I dunno, that's what I meant though

 

[knotical]

...I thought I covered that when I said "jet seat conversion". I thought that's what it was called, a jet seat piston? I dunno, that's what I meant though

You're right. I didn't recognize it by that terminology.

 

[Scared Silly]

First the B series (as well as Z and M series) regulators are chrome plated brass not SS. The only SS is the piston (and few other bits like the swivel retainer).

Regarding the piston upgrade - the SS is fine. The monel is really an upgrade if you plan to run O2 greater than 40%. Get the piston replaced when you have the reg serviced.

If you are going to get an M1 color kit understand they typically come with the comfort mouth piece. I would try that first. (Shop carefully).

If you think you think you want to play in wrecks, caverns, or caves get a real second stage to use as an octo. An inflator/octo will not cut it. (Shameless plus I have Z2 second stage for sale).

Hoses for now dive it with current hose. If you are going to play in wrecks, caverns, or caves at some point you have 5' - 7' for your primary (which you will donate in an OOA situation) and your secondary will be on a short (which you will be breathing). Long milfex hoses are too float thus rubber is preferred.

Sealing - the sealing is good for certain climates but for the most part a PITA when servicing. In the end it just pisses the service tech off and costs you money.

 

[52brandon]

You're right. I didn't recognize it by that terminology.

thank you. I wanted to make sure I was thinking of the same thing

First the B series (as well as Z and M series) regulators are chrome plated brass not SS. The only SS is the piston (and few other bits like the swivel retainer).

Regarding the piston upgrade - the SS is fine. The monel is really an upgrade if you plan to run O2 greater than 40%. Get the piston replaced when you have the reg serviced.

If you are going to get an M1 color kit understand they typically come with the comfort mouth piece. I would try that first. (Shop carefully).

If you think you think you want to play in wrecks, caverns, or caves get a real second stage to use as an octo. An inflator/octo will not cut it. (Shameless plus I have Z2 second stage for sale).

Hoses for now dive it with current hose. If you are going to play in wrecks, caverns, or caves at some point you have 5' - 7' for your primary (which you will donate in an OOA situation) and your secondary will be on a short (which you will be breathing). Long milfex hoses are too float thus rubber is preferred.

Sealing - the sealing is good for certain climates but for the most part a PITA when servicing. In the end it just pisses the service tech off and costs you money.

thanks for the detailed reply. Honestly, I would love to take your Z2 off your hands. I think I can be more certain that the members here take better care of their gear than random people on eBay (though the reg I got seems to be damn near perfect. I'd take that as more likely the exception rather than the rule). So would you suggest the swivel Atomic hose? Or should 5' be more than enough to be comfortable? The M1 kits I looked at were just the cover, the deflector and the knob. No mouthpiece. And, yeah, I do plan to dive caves and wrecks... at some point. That stuff sounds fascinating, and I likely wont have to go as far to see them as I would some amazing reef. But as of now, I don't wanna run before I learn to properly walk. Thanks for the tip on sealing too. How hard is it to learn to service it?

 

[halocline]

I wouldn't spend any money on 'upgrades' to make the reg more 'current', if it works fine the way it is. Don't bother replacing the piston unless there's IP creep. The mouthpiece does make a big difference; I like the seacure mouthpieces and I do think they're worth the money, but I would start with the existing mouthpiece on a few dives and see how that goes. Jaw fatigue is more about hose length than anything else, mouthpiece fit next, and 2nd stage materials/weight a very distant third.

As far as hoses and swivels go, don't spend any money until you have a better idea of what will work best for you. I'm a big fan of the long primary/short alternate 2nd stage hose set up; I think it's more comfortable and streamlined to dive with, and I know it's much better for air sharing. For that you would need a regular 2nd stage as an alternate, a 5ft hose for the primary, a 24" hose for the alternate, and a bungie necklace to wear the alternate around your neck. You can search for threads on "long hose". Every diver should learn with this set up IMO; it solves lots of problems. I don't think the miflex hoses are worth the money if you get the long hose, but they do supposedly last much longer.

I wouldn't get an octo/inflator combo, but that's just my opinion and it's a VERY often debated topic. If you do get one, definitely get a longer primary hose.

So rather than spend money to make a perfectly good regulator not really any better, consider buying a decent alternate 2nd stage and look into the long hose set up.

Servicing your own regulator is not difficult IMO, but I'm a pretty mechanically inclined person and I have some natural curiosity about how things work. I honestly could not imagine lugging my regulator to the LDS every year and paying someone an exorbitant amount of money to replace 50 cent parts that were perfectly fine to begin with. Especially considering these 'techs' at the LDS have exactly one weekend of 'training' to get the certification they need to start hacking away at my gear. Some dive shops do have excellent techs that are careful and knowledgable; nothing wrong with having those folks work on your reg, other than the expense. The question is, how do you know which kind of tech you have? The answer is, you don't. To me, working on my own regs is the best dive decision I've made, and I can't imagine how much money I've saved over the years, despite owning at least 10 regulators and a big box of NOS parts. Speaking of which, before you embark on DIY regulator service you'll need to find a source for atomic parts, and I have no idea how that will go. I find scubapro parts on ebay, through friendly dealers, from other DIYers, etc. There is a good source for atomic-specific tools, called scuabtools.com.

Have fun!

 

[Scared Silly]

Some follow up thoughts:

Regarding the upgrading here is one with the mouth piece, note the price:

Atomic Aquatics M1 Color Kit

As for actually doing the "cosmetic" upgrades with a color kit. It is cheap enough and it makes the reg what you want I would say go for it. Keep the extra parts around. A friend actually had the exhaust come off, which he lost. I gave him one of the old style from my "parts" bin.

As for hoses, as said do not worry about it for now. That said I have 5' hoses for open water and 7' for wreck/caverns. They are on different reg kits. Many like the comfort swivel hoses. They help a bit our long hoses happen to have them but do not make that much of a difference. Probably make a greater difference on shorter hoses.

In regards to servicing, Atomic regs are pretty easy to service. Getting parts kits can be hit or miss. NESS has them right now. If you have only one reg or even two I would say get in good with your local tech and spend some quality time with them (bring beer). You will learn lots and when you finally decide to plan to move towards tech diving and pickup your second and third reg think about doing the service then. There are some tools while not require make servicing much easier.

As said, the piston upgrade is only really needed if there is IP creep. However, the real problem is that service kits for the old piston can be hard to source. AA does not sell them any more. NESS has them:

http://www.northeastscubasupply.com/atomic-service-kits/

I'll send ya PM on the Z2 I have.

 

[52brandon]

Some follow up thoughts:

Regarding the upgrading here is one with the mouth piece, note the price:

Atomic Aquatics M1 Color Kit

As for actually doing the "cosmetic" upgrades with a color kit. It is cheap enough and it makes the reg what you want I would say go for it. Keep the extra parts around. A friend actually had the exhaust come off, which he lost. I gave him one of the old style from my "parts" bin.

As for hoses, as said do not worry about it for now. That said I have 5' hoses for open water and 7' for wreck/caverns. They are on different reg kits. Many like the comfort swivel hoses. They help a bit our long hoses happen to have them but do not make that much of a difference. Probably make a greater difference on shorter hoses.

In regards to servicing, Atomic regs are pretty easy to service. Getting parts kits can be hit or miss. NESS has them right now. If you have only one reg or even two I would say get in good with your local tech and spend some quality time with them (bring beer). You will learn lots and when you finally decide to plan to move towards tech diving and pickup your second and third reg think about doing the service then. There are some tools while not require make servicing much easier.

As said, the piston upgrade is only really needed if there is IP creep. However, the real problem is that service kits for the old piston can be hard to source. AA does not sell them any more. NESS has them:

Atomic Service Kits

I'll send ya PM on the Z2 I have.

thanks man. Regarding the color kit, I've seen that one before, but isn't that really just a generic one? The front cover is not M1 style with the holes on the sides, and the exhaust deflector isn't widened. It seems more like a B2/Z2 kit someone could put on an M1. As far as servicing, I'd much prefer to do it myself to be honest. I'm meticulous about my stuff. If I can find a good tool set for a decent price, I'll probably learn to do it myself. That would be my preference. Would save money in the long run too. AZ isn't exactly overflowing with scuba either lol