Ocearch - Great White Lies

[Wingy]

Red tape puts stop to shark barriers - The West Australian The shark barriers we will be using are ready to roll, just a bit of red tape before getting them in place. We have tagged sharks that are giving us information and lots of it - Shark research - plus the stuff CSIRO are doing..agencies co operating together not an outside outfit who are making a documentary. Its not as though we know nothing and need someone to come and teach us how to research our sharks we are doing a pretty good job of it - by alphas story we found out a lot more Great whites prey in ocean marvel - The West Australian

What happens if Ocearch come down here - we end up with a researchers ontop of eachother scenario? Do we need Ocearch? IMO No..the scientists here know what they are doing.

 

[wahlaoeh]

Red tape puts stop to shark barriers - The West Australian The shark barriers we will be using are ready to roll, just a bit of red tape before getting them in place. We have tagged sharks that are giving us information and lots of it - Shark research - plus the stuff CSIRO are doing..agencies co operating together not an outside outfit who are making a documentary. Its not as though we know nothing and need someone to come and teach us how to research our sharks we are doing a pretty good job of it - by alphas story we found out a lot more Great whites prey in ocean marvel - The West Australian

What happens if Ocearch come down here - we end up with a researchers ontop of eachother scenario? Do we need Ocearch? IMO No..the scientists here know what they are doing.

Wingy: Let's hope that the Australians can pressure the government to install the shark safe barriers. The story on Alpha is really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Wingy]

The government is all go to install the barriers, they are here and waiting, as the article says its just a red tape tendering process thats holding things up, I think looking at moving the one destined for dunsborough to gracetown may be an idea though.

The government is well and truly aware of public pressure and moves such as this as ways to stop the baying for culling. Theres usually a knee jerk outcry from the public like at the moment where fisheries officers are saying they will consider culling but overwhelmingly I think the public here are aware of the ridiculousness of going out and shooting every shark spotted in the area after a fatal. The set lines aimed at catching the shark in question on the weekend were removed after the prescribed 24 hours, govt policy atm - if no shark is caught on the set line in 24 hours it is assumed the shark has moved on. If species other than GW are caught when we know it was a GW from the bite, they are released. If a GW is caught on the set lines then a decision will be made with what to do. This appears to be the govt policy at the moment.

 

[drbill]

He's not there as a marine biologist. He's there as a professional fisherman to catch sharks for a marine biologist to examine. From a ship he owns by the way. Who said he was a marine biologist?

---------- Post added November 26th, 2013 at 08:59 PM ----------

Precisely my point. Thank you for stating it.

 

[wahlaoeh]

Wingy: Let's hope that the Australians can pressure the government to install the shark safe barriers.

Winggy: Oh no, seems like I have given you the wrong information. My good friend from SA who is a shark expert just replied to me saying that the new shark safe barriers are not in use. I have asked if the new shark safe barriers are indeed able to stop marine life from trapping - am still waiting for his reply. Hope the ones you have are better.

Quote:
Jovin - also the "Shark Safe Barrier" is rubbish and not in use. Ask any of the spearfishermen who have been chased through kelp and onto a beach and see what they think of
kelp scaring white sharks.

 

[DCBC]

AfterDark: The GWS are decreasing in numbers and are rare due to years of being hunted by man for fins and teeth, and often as a trophy for sport fishing. They are also occasionally caught as by-catch by commercial fisheries and can also become entangled in nets that protect beaches. So, I do not think that we should be taking more of them in the name of research, but that’s just my opinion. I respect your opinion but doesn’t mean I can agree

Unfortunately harm can be done to the species under research despite doing everything possible to minimize their pain and suffering. This inherent uncertainty exists in many areas of scientific research. Put simply, there is no guarantee that the harm caused in any one individual experiment will lead to palpable advancements. In science, one cannot determine ahead of time which lines of research are necessarily going to lead to medical breakthrough or advantage. Decisions to approve and fund research are based on expert opinion based on what studies show most promise (based on well-defined hypotheses and preliminary data), but there are no guarantees.

We have much to learn. The real danger to the GW lies in how we treat the oceans and not how we treat any one species. Think about this when you use a plastic bag, or drive your car...

Taken off Dyer Island, SA

 

[wahlaoeh]

Unfortunately harm can be done to the species under research despite doing everything possible to minimize their pain and suffering. This inherent uncertainty exists in many areas of scientific research. Put simply, there is no guarantee that the harm caused in any one individual experiment will lead to palpable advancements. In science, one cannot determine ahead of time which lines of research are necessarily going to lead to medical breakthrough or advantage. Decisions to approve and fund research are based on expert opinion based on what studies show most promise (based on well-defined hypotheses and preliminary data), but there are no guarantees.

We have much to learn. The real danger to the GW lies in how we treat the oceans and not how we treat any one species. Think about this when you use a plastic bag, or drive your car...

DCBC: As this thread was started to expose the Great White Lies Ocearch has told everyone, I want to focus on this issue. I was having some really good discussion on another forum but will not link that here - if anyone is interested to read, pls pm me. Just want to highlight a few points that were discussed as some members also questioned and challenged me to read on research papers from scientist who have worked with Ocearch. Two names came up: World renowned shark researcher Pete Klimley and Dr. Michael Domeier. I do not read research papers but that has piqued my interest to read more about them.


From some news online: abc7news.com I-Team: Controversial Shark Researcher Wants 4-Year Farallones Permit

Quote: Klimley tells me the first thing he worked on with the producers was an animal care protocol, an in-depth consideration of the health of the sharks, how the research would affect them, and techniques to minimize harm. Klimley say Domeier did not have an animal care protocol in place when he came to the Farallon Islands in November 2009, and gut-hooked Junior. The Great White was spotted late last year in terrible condition. Several researchers I spoke with say Domeier’s invasive techniques – most of all, leaving most of a 13-inch hook in Junior’s throat, made it weak and susceptible to attack by other sharks.
Klimley says he demanded the production crew build a sling to hoist the sharks and a live well on the ship, in which to place them. Klimley will not work with Great Whites in these expeditions – he says their enormous size is a challenge. He’s working with smaller Tiger and Hammerhead Sharks.

As about Dr. Michael Domeier, he has split with Chris Fischer and here’s a little tabloid surrounding their splits. http://fijisharkdivi...ents-by-dr.html

I especially love this bit:

Quote: No, I don’t give the data to Fischer…why should I…it’s my data?

LOL!!!

Note: Dr Domeier had been working with CF (Ocearch) for at least 2 years. Make me wonder will Ocearch or CF ever be publishing some invaluable data, ever.

Having said all these, I do commend scientists who have worked with Ocearch from distancing themselves and are evolving in new minimally invasive techniques.

"Scientists at MCSI have been working to improve methods for SPOT tagging adult great white sharks. New methods developed, tested and implemented by MCSI involve a device to prevent gut hooking, soft fishing gear to prevent skin abrasions and constant forward movement to fully irrigate the gills. Sharks tagged in this manner, including the largest white shark to ever be SPOT tagged, were far more vigorous upon release than our previous method that lifted the sharks from the water. We strive to constantly improve our methods to do what is best for the sharks and the scientific community."

http://www.marinecsi.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DSC1684b.jpg

Lastly, There are newer and less invasive methods available. My question remains: Is the OUTDATED and INVASIVE methods used by Chris Fischer and the current Ocearch team really necessary for the Great White Shark research?

ps: The picture of the shark that you have posted is what I want to see - a smiling shark and not this:

 

[DCBC]

Thanks for your comments. I agree that steps should be taken to protect the shark, At the same time the fact that human species contact is undertaken often causes damage to the shark. We should question how and why such research is being done and how what's learned is shared. As you have pointed out, sometimes it's not...

...ps: The picture of the shark that you have posted is what I want to see - a smiling shark...

At the same time, the smile wasn't very encouraging to me...

 

[wahlaoeh]

At the same time, the smile wasn't very encouraging to me...

IMHO, I love the smile of your shark 1000x better than the smiles on the scientists/sharkmen of the photo that I have posted

 

[drbill]

As you probably know, Wahlaoeh, I was on an expedition with Dr. Michael Domeier at Guadalupe Island (Mexico) in 2005. At that time he was using dart tags and the method was FAR less invasive than the use of SPOT Tags (which, in their current state, I deplore). In fact the great whites barely flinched when darted.

The drawback with those older dart inserted tags was that they did not have great longevity, hence one of the reasons for the move to SPOT tags. In my mind that was a major mistake since the entire procedure of capturing and tagging the shark was harmful IMHO.

There has already been a fair bit of research on shark migration done using less invasive methods, but OCEARCH seems to overwhelm those data with their PR effort. We need greater visibility about the prior results to show that a lot of information already existed before OCEARCH entered the picture. One thing that really irritates me about Fisher and his team is that he is not a marine biologist, but a sport angler. The smiles on his face and the warhoops from his crew make me sense there is no compassion for the animals they "study."