keyshunter
Contributor
This is an EXCELLENT point. If your very, very good buddy has a scuba related accident and you have serviced his reg, you will be absolutely amazed at how fast an ambulance chaser involves you in a lawsuit.
Regulator Servicing - Learn Through Books or Taking a Course?
- Thread starter WhiteSands
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This is an EXCELLENT point. If your very, very good buddy has a scuba related accident and you have serviced his reg, you will be absolutely amazed at how fast an ambulance chaser involves you in a lawsuit.
halocline
Contributor
I'd be curious about the actual occurrence of lawsuits vs talk of them as well.
In any event, to actually contribute to someone's death or injury by servicing their regulator, you'd have to be A) careless or incompetent, and B) stunningly unlucky, because reg failures do NOT cause death.
As an example, judging from my own experience and the multitude of stories on this forum, dive shop technicians make tons of mistakes servicing regulators all the time. Divers have problems with their regulators commonly after service. Anyone know first hand of a successful lawsuit against a dive shop for negligence due to improper service? And a dive shop is a far more lucrative and likely target than an individual hobbyist. A shop would have some insurance and assets to go after.
Another very iffy part of the whole liability issue is the fact that dive shop techs are certified in a VERY superficial manner. There's no real standard, no licensing exam, no peer review, no nothing, except a weekend seminar with zero failure rate and zero qualifications for entry (other than dive shop employment). If regulator service were really a hotspot for negligence liability, you can be SURE that there would be all sorts of actual standards and licensing LAWS, just like, for example, medical doctors.
The regulator self-and-friend service situation appears to me to be much more like working on cars. Would you not help a friend with his car because you're afraid of getting sued if his brakes fail and he runs into something? Or, more aptly, he drives in a risky manner and then blames the accident on the work? That would be more like diving, because EVERY certification agency teaches contingency for out of air situations, so diving in a way where a regulator failure causes injury is risky diving.
In any event, to actually contribute to someone's death or injury by servicing their regulator, you'd have to be A) careless or incompetent, and B) stunningly unlucky, because reg failures do NOT cause death.
As an example, judging from my own experience and the multitude of stories on this forum, dive shop technicians make tons of mistakes servicing regulators all the time. Divers have problems with their regulators commonly after service. Anyone know first hand of a successful lawsuit against a dive shop for negligence due to improper service? And a dive shop is a far more lucrative and likely target than an individual hobbyist. A shop would have some insurance and assets to go after.
Another very iffy part of the whole liability issue is the fact that dive shop techs are certified in a VERY superficial manner. There's no real standard, no licensing exam, no peer review, no nothing, except a weekend seminar with zero failure rate and zero qualifications for entry (other than dive shop employment). If regulator service were really a hotspot for negligence liability, you can be SURE that there would be all sorts of actual standards and licensing LAWS, just like, for example, medical doctors.
The regulator self-and-friend service situation appears to me to be much more like working on cars. Would you not help a friend with his car because you're afraid of getting sued if his brakes fail and he runs into something? Or, more aptly, he drives in a risky manner and then blames the accident on the work? That would be more like diving, because EVERY certification agency teaches contingency for out of air situations, so diving in a way where a regulator failure causes injury is risky diving.
LeadTurn_SD
Contributor
Hi Whitesands,
If you are still following this thread, I was in your position about 8 years ago.
I chose "Option 1". I did a lot of reading, asked questions, then bought a few well-used regulators on e-bay to "learn" on before servicing my family's regulators.
It may have been the single best diving-related decision I ever made! Oh and the e-bay regulators are still going strong, and among my "favorite" regs to dive with!
If you have just a touch of mechanical ability, and can work carefully and pay attention to detail, servicing regulators is really no harder than fixing a leaky sink, and LOTS more fun!
Best wishes.
I spent <$150 on "specialty" tools including my sonic cleaner and a torque wrench from Harbor Freight. For the DIYer it doesn't take the best quality most expensive tools out there. So far, I've read both the recommended books (my review here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bo...sus-harlows-regulator-maintenance-repair.html) and agree with the assessments provided here. The Wolfinger book will provide more in-depth detail and understanding while the Harlow book will be a better "how to" for just following the steps.
As for parts, there is an excellent thread or two here in the DIY section that lists equivalent parts for a bunch of different regs and there are quite often "mentors" here who answer any questions you might need answered.
I've only serviced my own and my brother's regs and won't service anyone else's. I would show someone else what I know and let them service their own, though.
If you are even slightly mechanically inclined this is not a difficult task and I disagree that it's not worth the cost. I bought used regs for less than the cost of a single service through a shop. For the price of a service I bought the tools I need to service all (5 sets now) myself. Plus, I get to tune them how I like and I have a better understanding of my gear so I can fix it on the spot, if necessary, saving money of a (not) wasted dive. (I have repaired a reg and swapped a reg on a boat while vomiting over the side so, for me, it's been worth it.)
All that said, I'd really like to have a local mentor whom I could ask questions and bring my gear to if I need some advice/help.
As for parts, there is an excellent thread or two here in the DIY section that lists equivalent parts for a bunch of different regs and there are quite often "mentors" here who answer any questions you might need answered.
I've only serviced my own and my brother's regs and won't service anyone else's. I would show someone else what I know and let them service their own, though.
If you are even slightly mechanically inclined this is not a difficult task and I disagree that it's not worth the cost. I bought used regs for less than the cost of a single service through a shop. For the price of a service I bought the tools I need to service all (5 sets now) myself. Plus, I get to tune them how I like and I have a better understanding of my gear so I can fix it on the spot, if necessary, saving money of a (not) wasted dive. (I have repaired a reg and swapped a reg on a boat while vomiting over the side so, for me, it's been worth it.)
All that said, I'd really like to have a local mentor whom I could ask questions and bring my gear to if I need some advice/help.
R
redacted
Guest
Interesting. I understand a HOG D3 is a balanced piston design. What balanced piston 1st stage o-ring failure will cause a 2nd stage to free flow?
The D3 is not a balanced piston. It is a balanced diaphragm and uses the same kit as the D-1 and D-2.
---------- Post added January 10th, 2014 at 04:29 PM ----------
There is an old story in the machine shop circles when it comes to knowing things. The way it goes is something like this. A large manufacturer had a multimillion dollar machine go down. No one in the plant could fix it. The company did not want to send someone to get the proper training to do it because it would have cost them a couple grand. So they had to call in an "Expert" from the machine mfg. He walked around the machine, took a few measurements, looked at the way it was set up, and asked the operator a few questions. He then took a piece of chalk out of his pocket, drew an x, and borrowed a 3 lb sledge and hit it. Right on the x. And the machine immediately started running like brand new. The "Expert" then handed the owner a bill for three thousand and four dollars. Three grand to hit the damn machine the owner asked. No said the expert. Four dollars to hit it. Three thousand to know where. Should have gotten the training huh?
---------- Post added January 10th, 2014 at 04:29 PM ----------
There is an old story in the machine shop circles when it comes to knowing things. The way it goes is something like this. A large manufacturer had a multimillion dollar machine go down. No one in the plant could fix it. The company did not want to send someone to get the proper training to do it because it would have cost them a couple grand. So they had to call in an "Expert" from the machine mfg. He walked around the machine, took a few measurements, looked at the way it was set up, and asked the operator a few questions. He then took a piece of chalk out of his pocket, drew an x, and borrowed a 3 lb sledge and hit it. Right on the x. And the machine immediately started running like brand new. The "Expert" then handed the owner a bill for three thousand and four dollars. Three grand to hit the damn machine the owner asked. No said the expert. Four dollars to hit it. Three thousand to know where. Should have gotten the training huh?
victorzamora
Contributor
As has been said, it's a balanced diaphragm regulator.
Having said that, the problem was the hp seat o ring. The hp seat in the D3 reg is removable. Both had a failure in the o ring that sealed it off. I replaced it with an o ring I had laying around and it's been perfect ever since. The o ring seemed a little brittle, but the rest seemed fine.
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elan
Contributor
Inflation
The first version I heard had one thousand and one dollar. The labour rates went up as much as 4 times
OP
WhiteSands
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I was reading through the regulator service manual, and it seems I need a pressurized cylinder to perform the checks after service?
For those who don't own one, or live in a place where owning one doesn't make sense (like me) except to be used for reg servicing, are there any viable workarounds?
For those who don't own one, or live in a place where owning one doesn't make sense (like me) except to be used for reg servicing, are there any viable workarounds?
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