Are Canadian Divers Lousy Customers?

[SED]

For a warranty to be in effect, its terms and conditions must be understood by BOTH parties. No such information was provided, either at purchase or included with the shipment.

Chris STARTED to do the right thing, but withdrew the offer within two minutes, because I exhibited what to him was typical Canadian behaviour that offended him. I expressed no expectation of resolution in my original post, nor did I demand one, so discussion of warranties and product failure is pointless.

However, I will repeat the question that is at the crux of this thread:

"Are Canadian Divers Lousy Customers?"

 

[gcarter]

OP is an ass with an entitlement complex.

I would like to know when the definition of "good customer service" changed to "replace well out of warranty gear for free", and no, it doesn't matter if you used it once or a thousand times. This is a growing entitlement trend that I personally have no patience for.

After reading the string of emails, IMO the OP fails on all counts. Not every customer is worth keeping and I certainly would not go out of my way to keep this one.

I am bothered by the generalization about Canadians but have no reason not to take Chris at his word that he is simply passing along something that has been said to him. Nonetheless, I did find its inclusion in the email a bit gratuitous.

 

[Wookie]

However, I will repeat the question that is at the crux of this thread:

"Are Canadian Divers Lousy Customers?"

In my experience, no, but then I don't attract what I consider "lousy customers". It's all how you come across. I don't come across to many as warm and inviting.

 

[SED]

OP is an ass with an entitlement complex.

OUCH! Guess I've been schooled!

 

[JBFG]

Dude,
Why didn't you just call Chris when things were not going the way you were hoping. a 5 min conversation would have probably fix everything.

 

[Ken T]

Well, I can't say that Canadians are any different consumers than Americans.

I suspect the only reason Canadians were singled out to Chris is because he is Canadian and his US retailers know that.
Just a general point of conversation.

Like,
"Hey Joe, you’re Canadian, why do they eat that mess called poutine up there?"
Or
"Hey Chris, you’re Canadian, why are they such jerks sometimes?"

My Canadian self –
I certainly make generalizations about Americans, British, French, Quebecois, Native Canadians, etc....but usually not in a mean spirited way. But, sometimes in a mean spirited way if I have just had a bad encounter with {insert nationality here}.

Just human nature I think.


As for HOG gear - I've been quite happy with it so far and plan to continue to use into the future.
I purchase it with an outlook to the future of having a few Tech courses eventually, and taking the regulator servicing course at that time.

And the price is reasonable.

Warranty - like the OP, I usually purchase items when they are on sale with future needs in mind.
Sometimes, they sit in the box for a year before I use them, so I too would be disappointed if the item did not work when I got around to using it.

You do run into the problem of the warranty expiring before use if you let it sit on the shelf for a while.

But, I think that is a risk you choose to take if you do not test it soon after purchase.

While it would be nice to have anything broken replaced at anytime- a business is not going to be around long with that model of customer service without an initial higher price point to offset future replacement costs.

I can understand both sides of the above email exchange -it just looks like some frustation was vented as well.


I purchase from companies with good customer service reputations – Shearwater, BARE and HOG.

I have sent my Petrel back – a replacement was sent within 2 weeks, at Christmas time.
I have sent my Bare SB system drysuit back – no replacement yet, but covered under warranty.
I have not had to return any HOG products yet. So far so good.

 

[SED]

Dude,
Why didn't you just call Chris when things were not going the way you were hoping. a 5 min conversation would have probably fix everything.

Because I prefer to have a record of conversations...dude.

---------- Post added January 25th, 2014 at 01:23 PM ----------

Well, I can't say that Canadians are any different consumers than Americans.

Thank you for your reasoned, intelligent reply. The best contribution to this thread so far.

 

[JS1scuba]

We love Canadians and all Customers.

This is one of those cases where no one wins because of poor communication. I hope that this may clear things up.

At Tech Diving Limited, we service customers from all over the world. That includes Canada. I’m from New York but live in Arizona (do that math for politics). We appreciate all of our international customers and provide them quality service. The challenges we face with Canadians are typically with shipping. Even though Canada is just across the border Canada imposes import taxes on products coming into their country. Some customers ask us to eat that, sorry but your countries taxes are not my issue. Just as when I import from other parts of the world, I pay import taxes here as well. It’s part of doing business.

When we purchase from a manufacturer for our inventory it can sit on my self for a day or a year, the warranty is for the consumer. Once it leaves my door and ends up in the consumer’s hands, the warranty time starts. Most products from manufacturers have a 1 year warranty period. There is some fudge factor, that in my experience is around three additional months, but that is not fact it is experience. However the warranty ends whether or not the product is used. This is why is it critical that whenever you purchase a product that you check it out when you get it. IF there is a problem, it comes back to us for replacement or refund within 30 days. After that, we will facilitate handling warranty issues within the scope of the manufacturer’s terms. If it’s within the window I indicated above, I will go out of my way to push a manufacturer. If it is far out of the warranty period, we may make some accommodation for a customer to purchase an item at a discounted price.

In this particular case, the OP purchased an item on a Black Friday Sale in 2010. Screaming deal $47.50 USD each. Not bad. End of September 2013 we get an email about the item.

“Just noticed a disconcerting issue with one of my HOG spgs (the one on the right in the attachment).

Is there any way that you can help me out with this? I understand these were purchased a while ago (see order confirmation), but it's a little unusual, and I kinda depend on gauges being accurate.

Appreciate your attention.”
---------------------------

This is 37 months after purchase.

We replied to the OP indicating that it was three years old more than 2 years out of warranty and that we would be happy to let him purchase a new one at our cost, something in the area of $41.00

-------------------
OP Replies a few days later as follows.
Scott, let's go ahead and replace the gauge. Send me ordering details and I'll return the credit card and shipping info. I'll get you to send it to a U.S address in Michigan.

------------------
One Day Later we receive a message from the OP that says the following:

Scott:

After discussions with a couple of tech buddies, I've decided against replacing my malfunctioning HOG pressure gauge with another unit.

Consensus was that gauges shouldn't fail like this, especially considering this was their first season of use. They expressed disappointment at the lack of support for a critical piece of safety gear (whether by the manufacturer or the vendor), and advised I choose another brand and supplier.

Sorry for bothering you, I appreciate your time on this.
---------------------

At this point, our file is closed. It is apparent this client is not satisfied with what we believed to be a very reasonable solution.

----------------------
Now it gets better ………

Mid January 2014 I get contacted by CR at HOG…. (forty-one months after purchase) which says …..

Chris:
Below is the original communication with the reseller with order information that should establish how old the gauges are. I bought them because they were a great promotional price, and they never saw service until last year.
PSI at outset was a legitimate 3000 psi in aluminum, filled by Scuba Playa’s supplier in Yucatan. Definitely NOT Florida!
-----------------------

CR at HOG conferences with me to confirm purchase date, and if the photo is the same that was provided to us. This item was not used ONCE . This item was used for an entire season. I don’t know if this is one dive or 100 dives, or 300 dives. If it’s a working pro, it could have seen significant use in a commercial environment for all I know. In any event in is forty one months since purchased and 29 months out of warranty.

My cell phone goes out of warranty, I buy a new one. My laptop goes out of warranty, I buy a new one. My television goes out of warranty, I buy a new one.
I believe my offer to replace the gauge at my cost (September) was fair and quite generous. Here is where this becomes sticky. Customers use of the internet in this way damages how manufacturers will handle warranty issues moving forward. The time and effort that has gone into this ONE particular item is staggering. Combined within my company and within HOG we must have invested close to 8 hours on this. Not to mention all the web posts on it. I predict that with approaches like this one companies will re-evaluate their warranty policies and establish shorter out of the gate warranties and have consumers purchase extended warranty programs moving forward. I am not saying this will happen tomorrow, but it is already happening at Walmart and Staples, and every cell phone company, as well as other products.

So here is what I am gonna do. And it’s only because it’s important that you be happy and that both Tech Diving Limited and HOG/EDGE continue to retain good customer relations. I am going to EXTEND my original offer to the OP. It’s good for 5 days and 5 days only. You can purchase TWO (2) exact replacements for $41.00 each, plus shipping. Email us the info and we will process it. The new Gauges will have 1 year limited warranty out of the box. We will NOT offer this replacement again in the future.

Fair enough?

Email all info to me at joel@techdivinglimited.com and I will take care of it.


Thanks for your continued support of Tech Diving Limited

 

[Jared0425]

Everybody has had an encounter with lousy people whether they be French, American, or Canadian. Living literally a stone throws from the border, we deal with both. I would say out of a SMALL minority of lousy divers, there is probaly 10 bad Americans to 2 Canadians. I love diving the other side of the river and lakes, especially in the St. Lawerance.

 

[Scott]

I have never ordered from TDL, nor do I own a piece of HOG equipment. I commend both Chris and Joel for going far beyond what any customer should expect.

To the OP, save Canada, take the deal!!


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