Are Canadian Divers Lousy Customers?

[kydaka]

in my humble Canadian opinion your offer is going above and beyond and i will look you up for future purchases

 

[JS1scuba]

I try hard to be concise in my posts, but there are those that insist on debating the warranty replacement issue, even though I’ve been very clear that I have no expectation of resolution. Responding may take a little bandwidth.

First, sincere apologies to the dive community at large for singlehandedly causing any restrictive new warranty policies that dive retailers may implement. My bad.

Now let’s address some incorrect assumptions.

No professional dives were done using the gear in question. The assumption that the gear was used for a full season is also incorrect. If it had been inspected as suggested in the HOG remedy, that would have been obvious, but…

The gauges were ordered on Nov 27, 2010. Medical issues kept me (and the gauges) on the shelf for over 23 months, starting mid-January, 2011 (nobody’s problem but my own). I reported the failure to TDL in September 20, 2013, just under 3 years after purchase, and conceivably out of warranty. But I wouldn’t know as none was stated. (Do you really replace your cellphone, laptop or TV when the warranty expires if they’re still working?)

I’m getting ready for another cave trip soon, so I turned to the manufacturer for one last try. And here we are today.

TDL’s offer of replacement covers their costs, but doesn’t do as much for me. $41 for a replacement (only one failed) means I’ll ultimately pay close to the cost of three gauges to get two that work. I recently bought another pair of gauges (yes, at a promotional price), so it doesn’t make sense to inventory another SPG.

I’ll pass.

One more time: this thread is about industry perception of Canadian dive customers, not warranty issues.

When I posted yesterday my opening pointed to poor communication as a reason this all went down the chute. Let's examine this most recent post from the OP and see how communication break downs happen.

OP claims no professional dives were done. OK I can live with that. However, when i see the thread and it says "Master Instructor" I assume all dives with equipment are done in professional environment.

OP suggest "inspection" from my professional opinion the photograph of the items show substantial wear. OK I can live with the differences between what I may think is significant and what someone else considers significant.

OP earlier says something about cylinders were filled in Mexico. Historically air fills from resorts and remote locations are suspect and at times may have a higher level of water vapor. If that were the case corrosion of a bourdon tube could affect accuracy.

OP states "3 years after purchase, and conceivably out of warranty. But I wouldn’t know as none was stated." Here, OP believes that it in fact is conceivable that it is out of warranty. And while i have no issue with a consumer ever asking us about a product warranty, we do state on our website under Conditions of Use, Section 4 that .... ""Seller (that's TDL) shall have no liability with respect to warranty claims made by the purchaser one year after the Seller's sale of the goods involved to the purchaser."" (This my counsel tells me provides a 1 year warranty from TDL whether or not the manufacturer has a 1 year warranty or not.)

TDL did make a reasonable offer within a few days of his original request to provide him with new product at our cost. First he took us up on it, then he declined it.

OP states .... """I’m getting ready for another cave trip soon, so I turned to the manufacturer for one last try.""" Did he think it conceivable that the manufacturer would do something different already knowing that it was now even further out of warranty?

OP then states: ""$41 for a replacement (only one failed) means I’ll ultimately pay close to the cost of three gauges to get two that work."" I can appreciate that the OP got the original gauges on a screaming deal. But that is not the true value/price of the product. The true price of the product (depending on which label is on these gauges) is between $79.00 and $120.00 So in fact $41.00 is pretty fair.

Here is where it gets humorous ...

OP states " I recently bought another pair of gauges (yes, at a promotional price), so it doesn’t make sense to inventory another SPG."" Did I read this right ? He went out and bought two (pair) more gauges. If from the original pair one wore out (that's not failure btw). He still has 1 now he has two more , that makes three, that inventories another SPG. Unless one of my colleagues sold him 2 gauges for 1/2 my cost this math does not add up.

Anyway even though the OP did NOT email me as I asked when i recently gave him a second chance at an offer I do read in his post "I'll Pass" I am going to interpret that as. "Thank you Mr. Silverstein for offering me an opportunity to replace the far out of warranty item at your cost. I will decline this offer as I have already replaced it with another product from another supplier."

So here is what I am gonna do. I will consult with all our vendors and suppliers, gather their warranty information, and get a blanket statement regarding warranty posted to our website so there is no ambiguity on warranty issues again.

Once again. We like Canadians as customers. We do not assume that Canadian customers are bad customers. We encourage customers to email us with any questions they have when contemplating, completing, or following up on purchasing any product from us. We will do what we can to get accurate and prompt information replied.

Cheers

 

[rjk75]

JS1scuba,

I don't think many suppliers (probably none) on this side of the border would be as accommodating as you've been.

 

[ams511]

Let's recap. ams511 directs readers to a request for assistance in the Equipment forum, and Wookie names names. But they play no part in outing the manufacturer? And I like most Americans.

Let's recap. You complain about a manufacturer criticizing all Canadians which peaks my interest. Then I look at your previous posts and see you complaining about a Hog gauge. It really is not rocket science (or reg repair) to put two and two together. Also for the record I did not direct anyone to a specific post just told them to read the most recent ones.

---------- Post added January 27th, 2014 at 06:03 PM ----------

I have never ordered from TDL, nor do I own a piece of HOG equipment. I commend both Chris and Joel for going far beyond what any customer should expect.

A while back someone posted a thread looking for help repairing a piece of Abyss equipment. I referred the person to Joel at TDL because I remembered he used to work for Abyss. The posted how happy he was because Joel had the part and shipped it to him for free (or maybe just for the shipping as I don't remember exactly). Abyss must be out of business for at least 10 years now. So yes, Joel is a stand-up guy.

---------- Post added January 27th, 2014 at 06:09 PM ----------

And he knocks it out of the park. For Christ's sake, do you think Americans are retards?

Maybe not all Americans but certainly Floridians if he thinks we fill AL-80s to 5,000 PSI.

 

[buddhasummer]

Well, I can't say that Canadians are any different consumers than Americans.

I suspect the only reason Canadians were singled out to Chris is because he is Canadian and his US retailers know that.
Just a general point of conversation.

Like,
"Hey Joe, you’re Canadian, why do they eat that mess called poutine up there?"
Or
"Hey Chris, you’re Canadian, why are they such jerks sometimes?"

My Canadian self –
I certainly make generalizations about Americans, British, French, Quebecois, Native Canadians, etc....but usually not in a mean spirited way. But, sometimes in a mean spirited way if I have just had a bad encounter with {insert nationality here}.

Just human nature I think.


As for HOG gear - I've been quite happy with it so far and plan to continue to use into the future.
I purchase it with an outlook to the future of having a few Tech courses eventually, and taking the regulator servicing course at that time.

And the price is reasonable.

Warranty - like the OP, I usually purchase items when they are on sale with future needs in mind.
Sometimes, they sit in the box for a year before I use them, so I too would be disappointed if the item did not work when I got around to using it.

You do run into the problem of the warranty expiring before use if you let it sit on the shelf for a while.

But, I think that is a risk you choose to take if you do not test it soon after purchase.

While it would be nice to have anything broken replaced at anytime- a business is not going to be around long with that model of customer service without an initial higher price point to offset future replacement costs.

I can understand both sides of the above email exchange -it just looks like some frustation was vented as well.


I purchase from companies with good customer service reputations – Shearwater, BARE and HOG.

I have sent my Petrel back – a replacement was sent within 2 weeks, at Christmas time.
I have sent my Bare SB system drysuit back – no replacement yet, but covered under warranty.
I have not had to return any HOG products yet. So far so good.

A similar thing happened to me with an HP hose purchased from XXX it failed very shortly after being put into service but as the hose had been apparently purchased over a year before I was out of luck. I tend to buy multiple spares at a time as the freight on one item is expensive so not all items are instantly used. I wasn't overly impressed with XXX response but I understand it was purchased over a year before so I guess they had no way of knowing if I was lying or not and policies are put in place for a reason. But as a long time customer I would have though I would have been give the benefit of the doubt.

I learnt for the future any thing bought needs to be checked straight away to avoid a similar problem. I guess there are lots of scammers out there and shops need to be careful. I just spent another $1200 with them so I guess I got over it.

I agree with others a phone call may have solved the issue. I don't take Chris's comment as slander, libel whatever or even as a negative comment on all Canadian customers but then I'm not Canadian, maybe I would have if I was.

I'm not sure it needed to end this way but I guess wars have been started over less.

Time to move on eh?

 

[JohnN]

A while back someone posted a thread looking for help repairing a piece of Abyss equipment. I referred the person to Joel at TDL because I remembered he used to work for Abyss. The posted how happy he was because Joel had the part and shipped it to him for free (or maybe just for the shipping as I don't remember exactly). Abyss must be out of business for at least 10 years now. So yes, Joel is a stand-up guy.

That would be me. I was looking for the thumbwheel for an Abyss reel. Joel is awesome !!!

 

[JBFG]

I don't take Chris's comment as slander, libel whatever or even as a negative comment on all Canadian customers but then I'm not Canadian, maybe I would have if I was.

I'm Canadian and not offender by Chris.
l

 

[JS1scuba]

JS1scuba,

I don't think many suppliers (probably none) on this side of the border would be as accommodating as you've been.

Thanks. A few years back we let our customer service slip and it slipped hard. A bunch of orders got just met with the wrong alignment of the planets and it hurt us badly. Since then, we have refocused how we handle customer service and try to do the best thing we can with a given situation. While we can't make everyone happy we do try. We take pride in the ability to locate specialty parts for a lot of equipment made over the years. We send out loaner gear to clients when they need something special for a short project, and I've spent more than my fair share of time on the phone walking clients through dive computers, sizing equipment, solving decompression questions etc. On this one, it was simple on our part. It's too bad this did not go as it should have. Anyway the guy bought himself some new gauges from another vendor and is on his way to go cave diving. I hope he has fun.

Cheers
JDS

 

[decompression]

Where do I send the beer and bacon too, Jim?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[roastbeef]

Its not the true Canadians who are cheap its all the low balling scum bags who give us a bad name who feel there entitled to buy gear one day try it out than return it the next day because they found it cheaper online.