Having just completed a rescue diving course, this is a good reality check . Thank you for sharing.
divers in trouble..
- Thread starter bluephoenix
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KJ4SFL
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Thanks for sharing. It good to remind everyone how things can go bad and it not be realized right away. Good communication is a must.
Good post. Even a returned "OK" signal doesn't mean everything is OK. Several of my frequent buddies were diving recently and became concerned with one of the divers. Even though the stressed diver kept giving the "OK" sign back they could clearly see in the diver's eyes that they were not OK. The dive was called and all worked out OK. On shore at lunch (where I came in) this was being discussed. The stressed diver felt they could get back in control if given some time, the other divers could clearly see the stressed diver was not currently OK. This led to a discussion on not blindly returning the OK signal.
bluephoenix many thanks for sharing this and highlighting the need for everybody to be watching out for each other. Although I totally understand there is a multitude of reasons you might not want to share the incident details in a public forum especially when other people are involved, may I suggest at some point, whenever ready, you consider submitting anonymously the incident details to any of the organizations that collect and process diving incident information (DAN, BSAC, etc.)? The entire diving community awareness improves from those statistics; there's no reason for the submission to contain personally identifying information, it's the incident details that count and these it would be great if they were recorded, for everyone's future benefit. Again, many thanks for the post.
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bluephoenix
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Thanks to all for your comments!
Glad to see that it was the right thing to post it
In a nutshell (I love this English expression)
Dive planned to a max. depth of 42m with max. 2 min. at depth to have a look at a metal object in the lake with no required decompression stops and a minimum of 140bar rest at the beginning of ascend. Just when we started to ascend (my buddy had 150bar, I 170bar) I did not get the ok signal from my buddy and saw she had problems with her regulator - no gas, I ‘prepared’ to share mine while she tried to switch to her backup but also did not get any gas, she panicked. Of course I gave my reg immediately and tried to calm her down etc. As she was kicking around, showed really confused behaviour and in the beginning did not accept my reg, did not breath etc. it was really hard to get her breathing reasonably normally and do the ascent. Everything takes some time and we ran into deco. Due to depth, more time down there than planned, struggling, and breathing hard etc. my twin set was down to 30bar at 20m so I skipped deep stops; it was nearly empty at 12m, buddy panicked a second time. Rest is like I wrote before. We could not do any stops.
Of course we tried to find the cause(s). But even now, I do not know what was the main factor contributing - she could not get gas but her twin set was not empty and I could not see a free flow etc. Looks like that there was kind of a problem with the manifold (not checked until now). I don’t like making mistakes but I am a human being, of course I am not perfect and willing to learn and improve knowledge and skills, but not knowing what was the main cause drives me a bit crazy.. at the moment there are mainly two possibilities, one which is sadly very likely I really do not like to imagine nor I could post it here.. mixed with thoughts I do not know if I will get an unrestricted fit to dive statement back..
have nice and safe dives
Glad to see that it was the right thing to post it
In a nutshell (I love this English expression)
Dive planned to a max. depth of 42m with max. 2 min. at depth to have a look at a metal object in the lake with no required decompression stops and a minimum of 140bar rest at the beginning of ascend. Just when we started to ascend (my buddy had 150bar, I 170bar) I did not get the ok signal from my buddy and saw she had problems with her regulator - no gas, I ‘prepared’ to share mine while she tried to switch to her backup but also did not get any gas, she panicked. Of course I gave my reg immediately and tried to calm her down etc. As she was kicking around, showed really confused behaviour and in the beginning did not accept my reg, did not breath etc. it was really hard to get her breathing reasonably normally and do the ascent. Everything takes some time and we ran into deco. Due to depth, more time down there than planned, struggling, and breathing hard etc. my twin set was down to 30bar at 20m so I skipped deep stops; it was nearly empty at 12m, buddy panicked a second time. Rest is like I wrote before. We could not do any stops.
Of course we tried to find the cause(s). But even now, I do not know what was the main factor contributing - she could not get gas but her twin set was not empty and I could not see a free flow etc. Looks like that there was kind of a problem with the manifold (not checked until now). I don’t like making mistakes but I am a human being, of course I am not perfect and willing to learn and improve knowledge and skills, but not knowing what was the main cause drives me a bit crazy.. at the moment there are mainly two possibilities, one which is sadly very likely I really do not like to imagine nor I could post it here.. mixed with thoughts I do not know if I will get an unrestricted fit to dive statement back..
have nice and safe dives
Were her tanks properly open? I've seen it happen that people close too much after opening them (no need for that often times heard quarter of a turn back). It will give air on the surface or shallow, but it stops at depth. Did you check them while in the water, especially because you noticed you were also very low on air?
Did you actually check the regs just to be sure they weren't giving air?
Even taking some extra time during the ascent and breathing faster, going from 170 bar on a 2x12l (my assumption) to ~zero while ascending from 40m seems quite a lot of breathing or a very slow pace! Even to 20m where you had only 30 bar, that implies almost 820 l/min consumption for two people!
Could narcosis have caused an apparent "I'm not getting air" situation? I've never heard of that specific behaviour, but have heard of several more out of the ordinary...
Did you actually check the regs just to be sure they weren't giving air?
Even taking some extra time during the ascent and breathing faster, going from 170 bar on a 2x12l (my assumption) to ~zero while ascending from 40m seems quite a lot of breathing or a very slow pace! Even to 20m where you had only 30 bar, that implies almost 820 l/min consumption for two people!
Could narcosis have caused an apparent "I'm not getting air" situation? I've never heard of that specific behaviour, but have heard of several more out of the ordinary...
I do not know if I will get an unrestricted fit to dive statement back..
have nice and safe dives
Best wishes for your return to diving. Whatever happened, happened. The best you can do now is learn from it. Thanks for sharing so we all can learn also.
Alex@nder
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Very challenging situation you mastered well. On could raise the question to what extend your buddy was trained on oog procedures. I guess if she would have stayed calm and breathing rate down things would have been much smoother.
Kind regards
Alexander
Kind regards
Alexander
Bluepheonix,
Redshift gave you one possible scenario for not getting enough air at a depth of 42 meters (almost 140 feet). If the manifold was not opened all the way, there would be a restriction that could cause the scuba to not give enough air at that depth, especially under high demand as you began an ascent.
But there is another possibility--the regulator itself. There are a couple of things to check on the regulator:
--Regulator setting: some regulators have a knob which can be cranked down to increase breathing resistance. If her regulator had such a feature, check to see whether it was at its easiest or hardest setting. If it was at its hardest setting, the increased effort of breathing under high demand and at 42 meters (140 feet) could have caused her to think it was not delivering the air she needed (which would have been correct). To see whether this is correct, have use a manometer to check breathing resistance.
--The sintered filter (the filter at the back of the regulator): check to see whether it is corroded. If it is, then there is a possibility of restricting air flow at depth.
--Internal corrosion: Check to ensure that the internal mechanisms are free of corrosion.
--If this was a rental regulator, get that same regulator and have it tested for breathing resistance. (I doubt it was a rental, but figured I would mention it just in case it was.)
In short, check both the valve position possibility and thoroughly check the regulator. In order to get her back into the water she needs to have confidence in the gear she is using.
Best wishes for your and your buddy's future diving.
SeaRat
Redshift gave you one possible scenario for not getting enough air at a depth of 42 meters (almost 140 feet). If the manifold was not opened all the way, there would be a restriction that could cause the scuba to not give enough air at that depth, especially under high demand as you began an ascent.
But there is another possibility--the regulator itself. There are a couple of things to check on the regulator:
--Regulator setting: some regulators have a knob which can be cranked down to increase breathing resistance. If her regulator had such a feature, check to see whether it was at its easiest or hardest setting. If it was at its hardest setting, the increased effort of breathing under high demand and at 42 meters (140 feet) could have caused her to think it was not delivering the air she needed (which would have been correct). To see whether this is correct, have use a manometer to check breathing resistance.
--The sintered filter (the filter at the back of the regulator): check to see whether it is corroded. If it is, then there is a possibility of restricting air flow at depth.
--Internal corrosion: Check to ensure that the internal mechanisms are free of corrosion.
--If this was a rental regulator, get that same regulator and have it tested for breathing resistance. (I doubt it was a rental, but figured I would mention it just in case it was.)
In short, check both the valve position possibility and thoroughly check the regulator. In order to get her back into the water she needs to have confidence in the gear she is using.
Best wishes for your and your buddy's future diving.
SeaRat
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