What to do with an inexperienced instabuddy?

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I'd rather be treated like an adult. You know, "Here's what you need. Go practice it and get better. Progress as you feel ready." That's one thing about the PADI system....it expects people to be mature. Yeah, you can get AOW with a total of 9 dives and zero non-classroom dives......but they expect you to be mature enough to not make dive 10 down to 130ft. If you can't be that mature, then it's on you....not on me, or PADI.

Too many people are babied for too long. With an inexperienced buddy, I'd try and help them learn and get better. With a buddy that wants to be spoon fed everything (like so many people expect now) I'll negotiate a STEEP price or part ways forever. I expect to be treated like an adult and to be able to treat others the same way, and in every aspect of my life. If I can't treat you like an adult, or you don't treat me like one, I've lost trust instantly.
 
But there are agencies that force divers to have a higher number of dives before being able to progress than others.
Which can or can not be a good thing. How much experience is it really, doing the same, uneventful dive in the same quarry in the same conditions 100 times?
 
Which can or can not be a good thing. How much experience is it really, doing the same, uneventful dive in the same quarry in the same conditions 100 times?

If you do it enough, eventually something will happen.

Maybe a freeflow in March, maybe some 0-viz, maybe a good thunderstorm. You never know.
 
I'd rather be treated like an adult.
.

Well I'm sure that it's true for you, but what to do with an 10 dives diver diving to 30m? You cannot prevent him, he got the card.
Minimum number is not the panacea but in my club (I'm a BSAC) moving from OD to SD is a decision of the DO with the advice of other dive leaders that know the guy underwater ability. This could be done as soon as 15/20 dives if the person is comfortable underwater and has shown good skills.
That doesn't mean you are ready for every situation, but at least you are expected to behave properly in anormal situation. In addition a BSAC SD is also trained for rescue and NITROX, that requires a minimum diving experience.
No system is perfect, and we are all confortable with the one we have been trained with, but really I'm still amazed to see n organization giving a 30m qualification after 9 dives...
 
Believe me, the point I was trying to make was NOT that PADI is perfect. Far from it. I actually despise PADI in almost every way. However, they treat me like an adult (kinda) while providing some sort of liability assurance to the dive op that I've been exposed to certain things about deep diving. It's an additional cost I don't appreciate since AOW is typically such a useless cert, and normally only covers things that should've been taught in OW to begin with. However, it's a ticket to the dive op to do a dive I'm comfortable with and put them at ease about it. It's still up to them to filter me off of really adventurous dives based on their perception of my skills IN THE WATER, not based on a card or a logbook.

My wife has 35 dives under her weightbelt, and I've seen here 5ft from a group of 3 Full Cave students and 2 Full Cave instructors....the person with the least flailing and the person with the best trim was the piddly little OW diver completing her 34th dive (and first in a drysuit). If I had a GoPro, it would shock you. Not that she's perfect....but that certs and number of dives mean so little.

Also, with 9 dives you can be certified to 40m through PADI.
 
Ive got a fairly big familly who dive. so instabuddy is rare for me.But with one of my kidswho would do his own thing during a dive. I tried this bit of reverse phsycology
"hey allan look im a bit concerned about ME this dive Please could YOU keep a closer eye on ME this time ??"
Given that kids have the attention span of a goldfish this worked really well
 
Problem is that nowadays people want to be "treated like adults" and "take responsibility for themselves" right up to the point where an accident happen and then all of a sudden they need to find someone to sue...

As long as thats the norm, you WONT be treated like an adult..
 
Fascinating thread.

I have 4 situations I dive in:

First, in a pool or quarry working with student. In OW it can be very stressful, but I enjoy it for what it is, and the reason I became a DiveCon.

Second, I often lead short trips for the shop, where many of the new divers get their experience. I usually plan fairly shallow, easy dives, especially in our quarries (low to very low viz and cold), and really work at pairing appropriate divers up. I usually take the least experienced diver as my buddy. In this situation, how are they suppose to get better unless they dive more? And that is the service we are providing. Often we are lucky enough to have several DiveCons, so it can be a learning experience. As mentioned before, we talk WITH the new divers, not at them, and engage them in conversations about the dive planning and later about how the dives went. Hopefully we are presenting them with good examples.

Third, I often dive in the local ocean with an group from our shop, instructors and fellow Dive Cons (often former ly associated with the shop), and the very active divers associated with the shop. They are usually deep dives, and end up for the most part being solo dives, as we all carry appropriate equipment to solo dive and some of us photograph, and many spearfish.

Fourth, I frequently travel around with my non-diving wife, so I always am with an Insta-buddy. I have been quite lucky to date, the most common problem is I come up with half a tank. The end of last month I was in Key Largo for a week diving the wrecks. The first 4 days I dove with extremely skilled and experienced divers, and the dives were fabulous and easy for both of us, even with strong current and mediocre visibility. The 5th day I dove with a gentleman who was less experienced, but a good attentive buddy. The biggest issue was when we were on a 45 foot reef, he had a major series of throw up attacks. While he kept looking at the surface, he let me guide and calm him, and after several minutes of this activity, followed my instructions to fully clear out his regulator then clear his mask. At 50 dives, I found he must have had very good training not to panic. We headed back to the boat for a non-eventful conclusion to the dive.

Now the 6th day. I ended up with a "dive master" (not affiliated with the boat) with 150 dives, and he fiddled with his equipment and talked non-stop. When I finally butted into his soliloquy, I talked with him about the various dive planning issues. We were headed to 90-110 feet in strong current, I was on Nitrox, and he was on air. I mentioned that I would follow his lead on turning back since his NDL minutes would be shorter than mine at depth. He corrected me and mentioned we could be on the wreck 45 minutes. Very interesting... I pulled up my computer and showed him at those depths at EAN30 I would only have 29 minutes of NDL time. He on air would be considerably shorter. He debated this with me, in a friendly manner, and in the end, he hesitantly agreed. Well, the dive went okay, but I ended up constantly checking his air and NDLs, and by constantly questioning him on each, determined it was time to turn the dive, which did bring us up considerably faster than 45 minutes. He was like a puppy on the dive, letting me lead and following me tight, so it ended up a fairly satisfactory dive (as opposed to chasing him around.

I have had great dives with people with 20 dives and lousy dives with people with 200 dives. Guess my longwinded discussion is watch your buddy set up, have a good conversation with them studying their mannerisms, throughly discuss the dive plan with them and don't take any claims of experience and/or achievement as set in stone.

Terry
 
Yep.. skill in the water and setting up before you splash is more important than C cards or dive totals claimed. I know of too many cases of "fudged dive logs". There is no way to tell for sure if the dives a person claims have actually been done. That is why the requirement of having X number of dives before qualifying to take a given course IMHO has questionable value. I don't care how many cards, what agency, how many dives, how many stories or how gib.. I will reserve judgement until "the rubber hits the road".
 
^+1

I've met a PADI Rescue Diver who didn't know which hose went in the BC and which hose went in the dry suit :confused:

Even as an OW at the time, that baffled me.
 
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