Deaths at Eagles Nest - Homosassa FL
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JDelage
Contributor
This is still an attitude problem. Lack of money means you don't dive; it doesn't mean you dive recklesly.
---------- Post added April 6th, 2014 at 03:21 PM ----------
As a side note, someone should send this thread to Jon Krakauer. It has all the elements for a book.
---------- Post added April 6th, 2014 at 03:21 PM ----------
As a side note, someone should send this thread to Jon Krakauer. It has all the elements for a book.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Impatience is a disease. People want instant gratification: they want the easy button. Hollywood feeds this idea that you can short cut proper training and even proper gear with a bit of pluck and luck. It's nothing but a lie. A lie that people buy into every day. They gamble with their lives and unfortunately, they gamble with others' lives as well.
There is a "rigid enforcement" of the rules already. Death is laying in wait for the arrogant, the untrained, the unwary and yes, even for the impatient. That's the real take away from this tragedy: Don't be in such a rush to die.
There is a "rigid enforcement" of the rules already. Death is laying in wait for the arrogant, the untrained, the unwary and yes, even for the impatient. That's the real take away from this tragedy: Don't be in such a rush to die.
I think you hit the nail on the head, Pete. Along the same lines I have seen divers go from very tough instructors that have failed them, for not having the proper skill sets, awareness or mind set,... to go to another instructor that will be easy on them & rubber stamp them. I have seen & heard this at all levels, from Basic Open Water to the more advanced levels. Instead of working at it & improving naturally, they tend to take the path of least resistance. Just wave that magic wand & you are a technical/ cave diver.
I see instructors do it every day getting tech instructor ratings they haven't earned, qualify or have any business having.
Capt Jim Wyatt
Hanging at the 10 Foot Stop
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Scuba Instructor
I do not see it every day, but I see it a lot more often these days than in days past. But it is no surprise since several agencies standards for qualifying instructors only requires one instructor trainer to sign off on instructors.
NSS-CDS for example is set up so that at least five different instructors are required to sign off on a cavern or cave instructor.
Its the $$ grab that drives it. Quality is a distant second.
I understand what you are saying & truly it is only those who let it be that way. I am very thankful, it took me 2 yrs & 5 attempts to get from Intro level to Full cave. Will I become a cave instructor? perhaps some day.... right now I am enjoying it, learning the systems I can & advancing at a comfortable pace, so that when/ if the time comes, I can be as prepared as I can. I have been fortunate to be under a very demanding instructor that teaches for the reasons that is should be rather than the economics. My plans are to emulate his professional & personal standards as closely as I am able.
Capt Jim Wyatt
Hanging at the 10 Foot Stop
Staff member
ScubaBoard Business Sponsor
Scuba Instructor
Well of course it is the blame of those who let it be that way. Just like the "cave divers" who bicycle kick their way through a cave dive and oblivious to the silt they are stirring up, and oblivious to the fact they look nothing like a cave diver. I see it often....
For most instructors its not about money. There is no money in teaching. The money is in the gear. I am not attached to any store, I teach because I enjoy it and strive to cover my costs. I do not teach cave or tech. I do tell students that if they do desire to go down that path to let me know and I'll get them to the proper instructors.
Too many divers dive beyond their capabilities. Too many divers take short cuts. And everyone takes it out on instructors. For the record, this individual was basic open water. The step son had no instruction what so ever and was taught by the father who held no instructor certification at all. That is way more dangerous than the rubber stamping instructors you speak of. My agency does not have a "tech" cert so I cannot relate...nor does it relate to this case.
Net doc says it well in his post, but don't be so quick to blame instructors for this tragedy. This guy had the audacity to forego proper training for info he probably got online. Perhaps even here in these very forums or over at DS. That is something I have seen an awful lot of. Self taught internet trained tech divers. That's why we need to come out as a community, stop the agency bashing, stop blaming instructors and call these posers out.
I'm sorry so many divers out there had horrible OW instructors. I'm glad you found your walk on water tech and cave instructors and that you are such an awesome diver now that every newbie out there is an idiot for daring to venture beneath the seas....because come on, real diving only happens in caves...oops...did I say that out loud? What I meant to say was don't be so arrogant folks. It tends to make some people, like this father, believe that what you worked your ass off for, what you trained years for, is really no big deal because his OW instructor is nothing more than an idiot who got their rating out of a gum ball machine and one can learn way more on an internet forum asking the "real diving experts". Second thought, maybe I am the idiot spending $625 annually on liability insurance to teach. Who needs a million dollar policy when I can simply sit behind a keyboard and do it with no responsibility.
Sorry for the rant, but instructor bashing pisses me off. This guy seriously F'd up, period. File it under "Bad Student".
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Too many divers dive beyond their capabilities. Too many divers take short cuts. And everyone takes it out on instructors. For the record, this individual was basic open water. The step son had no instruction what so ever and was taught by the father who held no instructor certification at all. That is way more dangerous than the rubber stamping instructors you speak of. My agency does not have a "tech" cert so I cannot relate...nor does it relate to this case.
Net doc says it well in his post, but don't be so quick to blame instructors for this tragedy. This guy had the audacity to forego proper training for info he probably got online. Perhaps even here in these very forums or over at DS. That is something I have seen an awful lot of. Self taught internet trained tech divers. That's why we need to come out as a community, stop the agency bashing, stop blaming instructors and call these posers out.
I'm sorry so many divers out there had horrible OW instructors. I'm glad you found your walk on water tech and cave instructors and that you are such an awesome diver now that every newbie out there is an idiot for daring to venture beneath the seas....because come on, real diving only happens in caves...oops...did I say that out loud? What I meant to say was don't be so arrogant folks. It tends to make some people, like this father, believe that what you worked your ass off for, what you trained years for, is really no big deal because his OW instructor is nothing more than an idiot who got their rating out of a gum ball machine and one can learn way more on an internet forum asking the "real diving experts". Second thought, maybe I am the idiot spending $625 annually on liability insurance to teach. Who needs a million dollar policy when I can simply sit behind a keyboard and do it with no responsibility.
Sorry for the rant, but instructor bashing pisses me off. This guy seriously F'd up, period. File it under "Bad Student".
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For those that feel there is no money in teaching and only teach for the enjoyment, I believe my friend Pete Nawrocky said it best as a few of us instructor types sat around chatting, one instructor echoed those same sentiments. Pete said, 'do you know what I enjoy? Eating! I enjoy having heat in my house!'. There is plenty of money in teaching if you are doing right.
Perhaps this is one of the problems that has contributed to this accident; Dad did not see any real value in the training. Why do golf and tennis instructors make $25 and hour, a carpenter gets $40 an hour to install a window and a plumber jamming a plunger in your toilet is charging $65 and hour, yet the person with your life in their hands barely makes minimum wage?
Sadly, we (the scuba industry collectively) have done this to ourselves. We devalue ourselves and our service and do not charge what we are worth. I believe we should always conduct ourselves as professional educators, charge like professional educators, deliver like professional educators and get paid accordingly.
Perhaps this is one of the problems that has contributed to this accident; Dad did not see any real value in the training. Why do golf and tennis instructors make $25 and hour, a carpenter gets $40 an hour to install a window and a plumber jamming a plunger in your toilet is charging $65 and hour, yet the person with your life in their hands barely makes minimum wage?
Sadly, we (the scuba industry collectively) have done this to ourselves. We devalue ourselves and our service and do not charge what we are worth. I believe we should always conduct ourselves as professional educators, charge like professional educators, deliver like professional educators and get paid accordingly.
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