Buddy training

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rickthompson

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
Messages
136
Reaction score
14
Location
Coral Gables, Florida, United States
# of dives
200 - 499
I am on the executive board of a dive club that has recently been approached by a potential member who is a paraplegic, but wants to come diving with us. We are all very excited about this, but the organization he has been talking to is quoting us ~$500 per student for the buddy training. If we get 12 students together they will "reduce" the cost to $350 a student. It is my understanding that this course takes about 3 days, so we are looking at $1000+ per day for this particular instructor's time. To me this seems absurd, higher than I've paid for my own professional, technical, and scientific training.

Due to the niche nature of this training, is this reasonable, or should I be looking for another instructor?

I'd appreciate any help! Thanks!

---------- Post added April 9th, 2014 at 01:22 AM ----------

I also feel very uncomfortable with the fact that this instructor is willing to accept a class of 12 students. Does anyone know what HSA's student:instructor ratios are? I feel like 3-5 max would be more appropriate for this type of training...
 

I also feel very uncomfortable with the fact that this instructor is willing to accept a class of 12 students. Does anyone know what HSA's student:instructor ratios are?

A private diving course would usually cost about $100-150 per day. For a 3 day course, the $350 they quoted doesn't sound too bad but it seems odd that so many people in the club would need to take it.

As for ratios. It really depends on what it is they teach you. At the OW level 2:4 or maximum 2:6 is the most I can manage and still delver any kind of quality at this level.

IN the HSA buddy course, they will be starting with certified divers and teaching them skills to deal with special needs buddies. A higher ratio may be possible.

All that said... it seems odd to assume that only the HSA can teach a paraplegic to dive. When I first learned to dive there was a paraplegic diver in the club. He wasn't pampered but it was a different time and people were different back then. He had a limitation, and we helped him but he was our friend and if he wanted to dive he was going to have to man up and do his part. We did what we could to help him in obvious ways and for the rest he had to just suck it up and tell us what he expected of us!

With today's political sensitivities this sounds harsh... I mean we can't even call "gibbled" people "gibbled" anymore... Back then, if you were gibbled, you *accepted* that you needed help and had to communicate. Today, people are incredibly patronizing with disabled people to the point that they have, by and large, sort of pushed disabled people into acting like victims. If you ask me, it was better for everyone when disabled people just said what they needed instead of putting organisations like the HSA between them to make a non-problem look like one.

R..
 
While I do not speak for the HSA, I have to adress some of Diver0001's comments. I was trained as an HSA Instructor several years ago and so my opinions are based on what I was taught in the course and in what I have done since then.

First, the HSA does NOT exist as the sole arbiter of how a person with disabilities should dive. In fact, I was taught that if someone had a disability, you encourage them to meet the physical requirements of whatever agency you teach for (HSA Instructors, at least when I became one, must be a scuba instructor for another agency, PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc, before becoming an HSA Instructor) and if they can meet them, you certify them through your primary agency.

Second, the HSA does not teach disabled people to be victims. In fact, they encourage independence as much as possible (again, see my first point above). I would also add that the sort of disabled person who would attempt scuba isn't generally the type that would put up with being treated like a victim. They are typically the kind of people that won't let their disability get in the way of their goals.

Third, yes, it's nice if a disabled person would tell us what they want, but they don't always know what their needs might be when they are taking their open water course, or you as a buddy or instructor might not consider, equalizing your ears for example (try pinching your nose without the use of your hands). As an instructor, I am there to teach my students. Students come to me to learn. As you know, it is actually incredibly easy to scuba dive, you put on the gear and you swim around, big deal. It's how to do it safely that we teach in a Scuba course. We talk about decompression sickness and how to avoid it, out of air emergencies, cramps, nitrogen narcosis, how to equalize your ears, regulator free flows, all those things that most scuba students never even thought about. So a disabled person is looking to their instructor to help them identify what things they might need help with BEFORE they get in the water. If you are a quadriplegic you don't want to discover you need help equalizing your ears three feet below the surface with no way to communicate with the guy that is dragging you to the bottom of the lake, or pool.

Finally, the HSA does exist because there are close minded divers and instructors out there who think a lake or an ocean is no place for someone who is paralyzed or blind or missing a leg or has some other form of disability or they (the diver or instructor) simply don't know how to deal with some of these issues and so they are afraid to even try to tackle them. The HSA exists to provide instructors with the training they need to identify the issues a handicapped diver might have and how to deal with them so that, if possible that handicapped person can get a standard agency certification (NAUI, PADI, etc), and if that person cannot meet the physical requirements of those agencies, then there are guidelines for the kind of certification the instructor can issue so that person can dive with whatever assistance they need. The HSA also exists to help able bodied divers understand that handicapped divers have special needs that they might not think about, so that if they are diving with a handicapped diver, they can ask if something might be an issue in case the handicapped diver forgets to mention it. Different disabilities have different needs.

To be fair, I have not certified many handicapped divers. I've had maybe four handicapped students, and all of them, despite their disabilities, were able to meet the performance requirements for Open Water Scuba certification (we had to get an exception for the paraplegic to skip the giant stride entry and use webbed gloves instead of kicking with fins - and she's a better diver than a number of the able-bodied divers I've seen in the Caribbean).
 


All that said... it seems odd to assume that only the HSA can teach a paraplegic to dive. When I first learned to dive there was a paraplegic diver in the club. He wasn't pampered but it was a different time and people were different back then. He had a limitation, and we helped him but he was our friend and if he wanted to dive he was going to have to man up and do his part. We did what we could to help him in obvious ways and for the rest he had to just suck it up and tell us what he expected of us!

With today's political sensitivities this sounds harsh... I mean we can't even call "gibbled" people "gibbled" anymore... Back then, if you were gibbled, you *accepted* that you needed help and had to communicate. Today, people are incredibly patronizing with disabled people to the point that they have, by and large, sort of pushed disabled people into acting like victims. If you ask me, it was better for everyone when disabled people just said what they needed instead of putting organisations like the HSA between them to make a non-problem look like one.

R..

All of this talk about political sensitivities, and disabled people acting like victims, and the days when real men would just suck it up....it’s all fiction. Back in those olden days that you romanticize; disabled people didn't dive in any real numbers. Why? Maybe because there wasn't a system and standards in place to communicate that is was possible and could be done safely, so they didn't try. Maybe because buddies didn't feel competent to dive with them. Mitigating that (even imperfectly) is a no brainer to anyone who loves diving and wants other to experience it. The scope and complexity of disability can defy comprehension and the notion that special training for buddies or instructors can't be helpful is sort of silly. I have no idea whether the HSA buddy course is worth the cost or provides any real value. That said, I do know that education para-professionals working in special Ed classes need special skills and training. I know that families of special needs children require additional training and support. I know that when a dear friend lost his hearing I needed to learn to sign if I wanted to communicate with them. I know that simply creating a voting process where every person can participate in our democracy while maintaining their privacy is so difficult it remains largely unsuccessful. Accommodation is not coddling. And you can't stick all the responsibility for securing equal access on people with disabilities. It is a shared responsibility. But of course I could be wrong. And you (with your massive sample size of one) could be right.
 
Greetings Moderator,
All I can say is "Take the Course" before you judge what it is about. Then volunteer some time working to bring diving to someone who is in a chair or bed every day. The HSA buddy course is just like an other specialty scuba training. There are other organizations that have adaptive training courses as well. But HSA might be the oldest. Remember this form is about adaptive diving, not PC or victims.
Good Divin

SoCalRich
 
How did this go to such a tangent. As i see teh OP they are asking not about the disabled training but the training of those that will be diving with a limited diver. Please get off of the wagon of of No one wants to teach a cripple. The issue is about teaching the non cripples on how to be a BUDDY for a cripple. Thias tells me that the cripple can already dive and would if they could only find someone that knows how o be a limited diver buddy.

Post #1 ..... Yes the fee is too high at 1000 a day.
Post #2 The most intelligent comment so far
Post #3 Is spot on target
Posat #4&5 proves post 3
Post #6 I agree take the course and decide if you can accomodate the potential members needs. The course will not fix anything unless the club can guarentee that a trained buddy will be available when needed. The more trained the better the guarentee and the higher the club cost will be, which leads right back to the OP's post.
 
Thank you all for your feedback. To clarify, the aspect I was concerned about was the potential large class size at a ridiculous cost (for a class of that size). Now I'm not an instructor, but I've taken my fair share of diving courses ranging from recreational to technical, as well as various professional development courses outside of diving, and I would agree that $150 per day is a reasonable rate with a class of 1-3 divers (~$500 total per day for instructor time).

We have several members interested in participating for many reasons: (1) to help out our disabled member (2) to volunteer in future with other disabled divers, both in the club and outside of it (3) many of the interested members are physical therapy students, and so this presents itself as applicable professional training (4) just because it is a unique opportunity to expanding diving skills and mindset.

We might have 12+ divers interested, and so I had hoped that with that many we could reduce the cost (most are college students, and don't necessarily have $500+ to drop on a dive class at the moment).

That being said, I would like to keep my options open. What other training agencies offer adaptive buddy training? Can anyone recommend any instructors in SE Florida?

---------- Post added June 9th, 2014 at 01:05 AM ----------

And yes, I'm only talking about buddy​ training, not training for the disabled diver.
 
Is the person who is para a certified diver? If so, why would the people who dive with him need special training?

Several years ago we were on a dive boat in Key Largo -- checking out ourselves/gear before going on a dive trip. DM (In KL they stay on the boat, don't guide the dive) came up to us "Guys, I really need your help." Turns out there was a fellow on the boat who was paralyzed from the waist down, a certified diver, and had no buddy. We agreed to triple with him. I went over and talked with the guy, asked him what he could do underwater, how his gear was set up, etc. I explained to him that I was going to be taking pictures and was taking my time. He geared up, dragged himself along the deck, and the staff pushed him into the water. Dive went fine and he asked if we were going to dive the next day -- which we did. He wasn't a very experienced diver, but I was comfortable doing a triple on a shallow dive. As a buddy I wouldn't depend on him, not because of the physical disability, but because of his inexperience.

@KWS: Keep in mind that we are all "temporarily abled" people. Otherwise known as TABs.
 
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