how to handle panicky divers in group

[rx7diver]

I once had an interesting pool experience...

Several years ago...

boulderjohn,

There is very little chance, I think, of these types of things happening in the "long, thorough course" I'm referring to in my post #10 in this thread.

For example, my course, which employed harassment at progressively more liberal levels, began with a lot of physical conditioning and swimming and skin diving training. In fact, our earliest pool skills involved *only* a mask and snorkel (and weight belt): Buddies face each other, *standing* in the bottom of the shallow end of the pool, with one hand holding onto the side of the pool. They begin breathing off of their snorkels and, slowly kneeling, submerge first their mouthes, then their eyes, then their entire heads. Under their TA's direction, one at a time each removes his/her snorkel from his mouth (so it floods; careful: diver must be bubbling when something isn't in his mouth!) and then replaces and purges his snorkel and continues breathing. They do this for several repetitions before they stand up.

They remove their masks, and repeat what was just done with their masks on.

Then they replace their masks and discard one of the snorkels. And then do a variation of this skill, but buddy breathing off of the one remaining snorkel (careful: the diver who "owns" the snorkel must "control" it)

Repeat with masks off.

This first skin diving two-hour pool session ends with the divers hurling their masks (with snorkel) down the shallow lanes, then swimming (alternately surface swimming and underwater swimming) to dive down to the mask and, remaining underwater, retrieve it, put it on, clear it, and purge the snorkel, before standing to repeat.

(Actually, the pool session ends after the divers have washed and put away their gear and swum their required increasing number of laps.)

BTW, before the buddy pair commenced their skill, the skill was demonstrated by a pair of TA's.

Oh, I left off the part where the TA gradually scoops water into the diver's snorkel while he is breathing off of it so that the diver experiences what it feels like to breathe off of a "wet snorkel" as he might have to in rough seas. (BTW, the students are invariably surprised and delighted by just how much water can be tolerated in a snorkel, how much water one can "breathe around.")

Imagine: a two-hour wet session devoted to only these elementary but essential skin-diving skills!

Okay, many people will likely conclude that a (necessarily) long, thorough scuba course that progresses this way will produce students who are less likely to panic, less likely to reach their panic threshold. Harassment skills, appropriately introduced, are entirely appropriate, imho, for such a long, thorough course.

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[pdhenry]

On my first OW dive a fellow student (he was only 11) lost his weight belt in about 30 feet of water (I think it slid down past his hips). He came swimming over to the Instructor with his weight belt in one hand and signaling "something's wrong" with the other. I held the kid's tank down while the instructor helped him get his weights back on. I thought it was a pretty calm response from the 11 year old on his first OW dive.

 

[TSandM]

I guess I am making a distinction between fear/stress and panic. Fear and stress can be managed; panic is the result when that management fails. All training is designed to avoid panic, because once the state of panic has been achieved, constructive action is unlikely.

 

[Redshift]

For example, my course, which employed harassment at progressively more liberal levels, began with a lot of physical conditioning and swimming and skin diving training.

Same with me. We had a full free diving cert before starting the training on scuba.

I guess I am making a distinction between fear/stress and panic. Fear and stress can be managed; panic is the result when that management fails. All training is designed to avoid panic, because once the state of panic has been achieved, constructive action is unlikely.

I agree with that distinction. And I think that training can help a diver realize that there are ways out of some stressful situations, therefore preventing panic. And also helps to turn stressful situations into less stressful ones.
I've seen divers having stress when doing the reg recovery exercise and rushing through it to try and get it back as quickly as possible. They are not confident underwater without the reg. I think some free diving training before hand makes them much more confident in their ability to hold their breath and makes them realize there is time to perform the task properly without panicking.
Many new divers have problems clearing the mask. They eventually manage it, but it's in a very controlled way and they are the ones taking it off and putting it back on, of their initiative, kneeling on the bottom. They then become certified. What happens if in their first dive they are swimming long and get a kick or a waving hand to their face that pulls the mask off? It's a completely different situation, they barely had managed a simple mask exercise, they will not react well to this. Training helps them to not only learn how to deal with such situations but also to realize they can deal with them and that makes a stressful situation not develop into panic.

 

[Jim-SAR]

I guess I am making a distinction between fear/stress and panic. Fear and stress can be managed; panic is the result when that management fails. All training is designed to avoid panic, because once the state of panic has been achieved, constructive action is unlikely.

Well said :cool2:

I just helped out with an OWD class where my two Nieces and two Nephews became certified. The youngest was 11, and the oldest was 15. They all did well, but had the typical new diver issues with buoancy, lack of confidence, and nervousness. All of which, are perfectly normal. My 11 year old Niece really shocked me with her ability to focus on the problem at hand and then work through the problem to a resolution before resorting to emergency mode. Not to mention they were all wearing 7mm suits, gloves/hoods, and the water was about 45-50 degrees. It would have been easy for those little issues like being chilly/cold, feeling awkward in 7mm neoprene, and simply breathing under water, to add up to a near-panic response.

The one thing I kept stressing to the class was; No matter what's going on that's causing you problems, if you are still breathing off of a regulator, then you have time to stop and think about corrective actions, before you're in a true emergency.

 

[Redshift]

I once had an interesting pool experience that may be helpful here. The student let me know up front that he was a bit apprehensive, so I was working carefully with him from the start. He was doing OK, though. Then we went for the first trip to the deep end of the pool, and he was having trouble equalizing. I was right next to him with his head at no more than 3-4 feet of water as he tried to equalize. Suddenly he went into full blown panic. He tore the regulator from his mouth and started flailing. Since I was right there to help, there were no serious consequences.

People do the strangest things when they panic. I was once helping with some try dives at a pool and a lady suddenly, just as we were getting to the bottom (<2m) of the pool took the reg out!

 

[boulderjohn]

People do the strangest things when they panic. I was once helping with some try dives at a pool and a lady suddenly, just as we were getting to the bottom (<2m) of the pool took the reg out!

I may be able to tell you why.

Before I was an instructor, I watched as my sister-in-law did a Discover Scuba experience. They did the confined water portion in a shallow, protected area near the resort. She was unable to do the skills there, she said, because the regulator was not giving her enough air. She could not stay under water for that reason. I watched the instructor work with her patiently. The regulator was working fine. The problem was that in her anxiety, she was breathing so shallowly that the air she was inhaling was not reaching her lungs, and the air she was supposed to be exhaling was not leaving the lungs. This was causing a carbon dioxide buildup, a growing sense of panic, and the illusion that the regulator was not working. People who think the regulator is not working will discard it.

When I work with a new class, when we go under water for the first time, I have them breathe with me. I point to my mouth when I am inhaling, and I point away when I am exhaling. I tell them to match me. Once I see that everyone is calmly breathing properly, we surface and begin the class. That simple exercise does wonders for relieving anxiety.

 

[reeftankdiver]

Apparently I went through the wrong OW course. All we had to do was flood our masks, remove our masks, drop our reg and recover and with a buddy signal OOA and gain their octo. Having been obsessed with Navy Seals for years, I'd just about give my left arm to go through their drown proofing course. Well, BUD/S really but especially the water training. I understand what some are saying on here about harassment having ill effects but I think that is very personality dependent. I still nervous with my mask being off. I can breathe but there is something about the feeling of water being in/around my nose that I have to really concentrate to overcome. I can practice these on my own but that's completely different than having someone turn off my air and otherwise unexpectedly harass me.

PS This isn't a knock against my instructor. I just would have preferred more stringent testing & practice.

 

[victorzamora]

I guess I am making a distinction between fear/stress and panic. Fear and stress can be managed; panic is the result when that management fails. All training is designed to avoid panic, because once the state of panic has been achieved, constructive action is unlikely.

When I mentioned that my wife's tolerance to panic increased drastically, I meant that she was more tolerant to fear/stress before succumbing to panic. I think that a distinction must be made when we talk about "panic tolerance" or "panic management." I didn't mean she was able to tolerate her panic attack, which I agree is truly impossible as you mentioned, but that she was much less prone to panic. I think this is common verbiage amongst a lot of people, not just on this thread.

 

[diver 85]

On my first OW dive a fellow student (he was only 11) lost his weight belt in about 30 feet of water (I think it slid down past his hips). He came swimming over to the Instructor with his weight belt in one hand and signaling "something's wrong" with the other. I held the kid's tank down while the instructor helped him get his weights back on. I thought it was a pretty calm response from the 11 year old on his first OW dive.

.................................See, another reason not to cert. people till they hit 12 YO---& can obtain some hips.......