How bad is it if an LDS calls you an “internet diver”?

[mathauck0814]

And keep that consumer chin up in the follow thru and don't cry like a cry baby when occasionally a store treats you like a leper trying to get it through your head that they don't want your business and to g.t.f.o.

As long as you'll take the abuse like a man and not cry or whine or post wondering why you were treated that way, I think that's fare.

As it's your prerogative to whom you will do business with it's a two way street and the dive shop owner gets the same prerogative.

No kidding. I flatly refuse to deal with people who shop or compete on price (in diving or in my profession). I'll discuss any number of other things, but things cost what they cost for a reason (or a number of reasons, none of which are really any of the customers' business). If you're unhappy with what things cost then shake my hand and walk away. If I'm unhappy with what you can afford, I'll smile, shake your hand and walk away.

The OP's shop owner is guilty of not walking away in a respectable manner. He could have said that he didn't believe in the type of diving that the OP was asking him to provide equipment for and withdrawn from the deal on "moral" grounds rather than acting like a jackass.

Though, I am willing to bet that dealing with enough nickel rockets and know it alls was the real reason for the attitude. Bad customers are as pervasive as bad vendors (if not more).

 

[kelemvor]

. So if I am an internet diver what do you call an employee that is not a diver at a dive shop?

Salesperson. In my mind, that is not a compliment. Regardless of what type of store it is.

 

[Mike]

Though, I am willing to bet that dealing with enough nickel rockets and know it alls was the real reason for the attitude. Bad customers are as pervasive as bad vendors (if not more).

Bad customers have grown exponentially in the last 6 years, everyone in retail and just about every business owner I talk to says the exact same thing. They've never experienced the God awful amount of entitlement that there is in customers like they've witness in these last few years. The recession seemed to start it, creating an idea that a consumer with money to spend was some sort of GOD and to be treated as such and any retailer lucky enough for that consumer to bless them should bend over backwards and fight to the death for their business. The media promoted such nonsense with articles of how desperate such and such is and how you can haggle and negotiate because they are in such tough times. That combined with the internet creates consumers who are just God smacked when they run into a good business owner who turns away business that falls outside of their preferred customer criteria. I can't tell you the amount of disbelief, shock and then vengefulness and venom that comes out of consumers today who feel they have some sort of right to shop and store keepers are regulated by some sort of laws that say they have to sell to everyone that enters their premises when it's simply not true. When they discover that shopping isn't a right but a privilege the wheels sometimes come off their train and they have a melt down.

 

[Tigerman]

Bad customers have grown exponentially in the last 6 years, everyone in retail and just about every business owner I talk to says the exact same thing. They've never experienced the God awful amount of entitlement that there is in customers like they've witness in these last few years. The recession seemed to start it, creating an idea that a consumer with money to spend was some sort of GOD and to be treated as such and any retailer lucky enough for that consumer to bless them should bend over backwards and fight to the death for their business. The media promoted such nonsense with articles of how desperate such and such is and how you can haggle and negotiate because they are in such tough times. That combined with the internet creates consumers who are just God smacked when they run into a good business owner who turns away business that falls outside of their preferred customer criteria. I can't tell you the amount of disbelief, shock and then vengefulness and venom that comes out of consumers today who feel they have some sort of right to shop and store keepers are regulated by some sort of laws that say they have to sell to everyone that enters their premises when it's simply not true. When they discover that shopping isn't a right but a privilege the wheels sometimes come off their train and they have a melt down.

And thats before you mention the contradiction of "its hard times, they need the money, you can haggle"...
If its hard times and you need the money, its definetly NOT the time to sell items at a loss...

 

[exundo]

Seen comments that say people use their store as showrooms, to the contrary I read up, compared prices online then offered him to match, which he gladly did and placed the order all without drama. One thing that didn't make sense was why he did not get my card # before he made the order.



If you are a store and a call came, requesting for a pricey item, wouldn't you get the card # and finalize the sale? The owner asked for it two days prior to delivery then cancels the whole purchase even after I offered to remove the offending colored item. He could have said not from the get go, but he didn't.



Either he was not intending to fulfill the sale in the first place, thought he would loose out somehow or questionable management by him. Saw anecdotal evidence to the latter, as recent as last May, in a yelp posting for his dive museum that he also owns, a scout leader posted a scathing review after the owner canceled the day of the museum trip for 8 cub scouts after scheduling 6 wks prior, due to construction.



The LDS is an authorized Apeks dealer, and I wanted an Apeks setup, so there should not be any reason not to get it shipped.

 

[muzikbiz22]

Bad customers have grown exponentially in the last 6 years, everyone in retail and just about every business owner I talk to says the exact same thing. They've never experienced the God awful amount of entitlement that there is in customers like they've witness in these last few years. The recession seemed to start it, creating an idea that a consumer with money to spend was some sort of GOD and to be treated as such and any retailer lucky enough for that consumer to bless them should bend over backwards and fight to the death for their business. The media promoted such nonsense with articles of how desperate such and such is and how you can haggle and negotiate because they are in such tough times. That combined with the internet creates consumers who are just God smacked when they run into a good business owner who turns away business that falls outside of their preferred customer criteria. I can't tell you the amount of disbelief, shock and then vengefulness and venom that comes out of consumers today who feel they have some sort of right to shop and store keepers are regulated by some sort of laws that say they have to sell to everyone that enters their premises when it's simply not true. When they discover that shopping isn't a right but a privilege the wheels sometimes come off their train and they have a melt down.

Agree, and well stated. The world is not a swap meet !

 

[Willy2763]

So shops think it's a privilege for customers to spend money on their limited selection of over priced goods? Gee, I wonder why the LDS is going the way of the dinosaur? :daydreaming:

 

[mathauck0814]

So shops think it's a privilege for customers to spend money on their limited selection of over priced goods? Gee, I wonder why the LDS is going the way of the dinosaur? :daydreaming:

All parties to a commercial agreement are privileged to be involved. There is a burden that goes along with being a vendor that is quite often not worth the money to shoulder.

 

[Mike]

I read up, compared prices online then offered him to match, which he gladly did and placed the order all without drama. One thing that didn't make sense was why he did not get my card # before he made the order.

If you are a store and a call came, requesting for a pricey item, wouldn't you get the card # and finalize the sale? The owner asked for it two days prior to delivery then cancels the whole purchase even after I offered to remove the offending colored item. He could have said not from the get go, but he didn't.



Either he was not intending to fulfill the sale in the first place, thought he would loose out somehow or questionable management by him. Saw anecdotal evidence to the latter, as recent as last May, in a yelp posting for his dive museum that he also owns, a scout leader posted a scathing review after the owner canceled the day of the museum trip for 8 cub scouts after scheduling 6 wks prior, due to construction.



The LDS is an authorized Apeks dealer, and I wanted an Apeks setup, so there should not be any reason not to get it shipped.

His first mistake was agreeing to match the price with an internet retailer. Why any bricks and mortar location would offer to match an internet price is beyond me. They aren't comparable, prices, it's an unrealistic expectation unless the store can figure out how to make up the waste of time order in another way such as selling training, other equipment etc...

He probably finally came to his senses half way through this whole thing after he kept asking himself why he should use all that expensive real estate he pays rent for to place an order, deal with the labor involved in the processing of the order, dealing with the labor to manage the order, deal with the possibility that the order comes in wrong, deal with the labor used to correct it, dealing with a customer who was offering little to no profit all for the glory of doing business with him, all for making basically a tiny gross profit that in reality probably turns into a net loss. He probably finally realized it was costing him money to fulfill the order and finally had enough and pulled the plug which he should have done right from the start when he was asked "if you match an internet price I will order this from you" and he should have right from the start explained the economics of how its a waste of time for him to match an internet price but I will sell it to your for X, and if you didn't like it or didn't understand it, tell you to hit the road.

There are customers who respect a persons investment in their livelyhood, understand that people need to make a realistic profit to stay in business, to put food on the table, to afford a decent life style, just like their customers. A business can service these types of customers and create a viable long term business or they can service the price shoppers with no loyalty and die a death of a thousand cuts on their way out of business.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Of all hobbies, I can honestly say that I've never seen such passionate feelings as I see between owners and customers in dive shops.
Are there other hobbies that are this way?

Here's where I'm at with my dive shop.
They know I do my own VIP's and tank service, but they never give me grief. When I bring in a tank to be filled they glance at the hydro date and the sticker and hook it up, not a peep.
I go in to get things like booties, gloves, cheap suits for hull diving, spear gun bands, air fills, etc.
If I need some accessory I always go to the dive shop first because it has happened where I got a cheap suit online figuring it was the cheapest option, then I went into the dive shop and they had a similar suit for around the same price on sale. For instance, right now they have some freediving suits on sale for 389.00 normally 489.00. I bought one similar at the Freedive Shop (which is a discounter) 2 years ago for 390.00 and that was considered a smoking price. I may go in to the dive shop and take it off their hands just to keep it as a back up.

Gloves and booties I will buy at the dive shop because I like to try those things on. Often the same exact size in the same boot will fit differently with different pairs because of sloppy assembly proceedures at the plants in China, so I like to make sure one isn't wider than the other or one toe pocket doesn't curve weird or something. Buying on the internet you don't have this opportunity.
Gloves, the same thing.
A mask I will buy at the dive shop because internet prices are not as cheap as they used to be, so saving $10 isn't worth it to me, I get it then because it's there.

The other day I needed some webbing. The dive shop happened to have the semi soft thick stuff that Trident supplies which is my favorite for making harnesses. It was $2.00 a foot and I needed 12 feet so I got it. On the internet I might have saved a few bucks, but what about shipping and the time I have to wait? We have to wait about 5 days out here on the west coast for anything it seems.

The whole concept and world of regulators and regulator service always seems to be the big hot button and the thing that sets people off the most. I solved this by obtaining quality used regs/parts on my own and servicing them myself. My dive shop hasn't seen one of my regs in 7 or 8 years now and they probably never will again. They never ask about it and I don't tell.

When I go in to the dive shop I just keep it simple. I don't talk a lot, I don't mention the gear I use or the type of diving I do. I don't provide any information or ammunition for there to be an opportunity to get into any debates.

I've learned to keep the drama and my emotions out of it. I'll be just as business savvy as a customer as they are savvy at being a retailer.
I like it this way and I'm sure they like it too.