gue accepting certs from another organisation, experiences?
- Thread starter Taliena
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One other quick note is that you need to understand the reason behind the requirement. In the past before for example fundies classes were invented, people were allowed to just walk into a Tec1 or Cave1 class..
It ended up in abysmal passing ratios and these classes ended up being very very expensive basic bouyancy and skills classes.. Then Fundies was invented as workshop to help prepare people and later developed into a full blown class..
So as a future Tec or Cave diver, see a fundies class not just as an awesome way to improve your diving, but also as an insurance policy of sorts on your Tec1 or Cave1 class, because the chances of being successful post a "tec-pass" graduation in a fundamentals class and obtaining a certification for the $2,500 you will spend on a Cave1 class on Mexico, is EXPONENTIALLY higher if you had gone through a system to lay the base foundational layer and fully prepare your for that Cave1 class.
In for example a Tec1 class, the instructor is NOT there to teach you how to do valve drills, S-Drills, kicks, boyancy, SMB deployments, safe ascents on a line with perfect stops, etc. etc. etc… The focus of that class is to teach you entry level decompression diving and if you dont walk into a class with all the GUE fundamental skills buttoned down 100% according to the GUE Standard Operating Procedures, you WILL have a hard time in that class and you may end up spending thousands of dollars to learn how to perform a valve drill mid-water without losing buoyancy..
All of a sudden 4 days and $700 seems like a great investment to help you prepare towards success..
It ended up in abysmal passing ratios and these classes ended up being very very expensive basic bouyancy and skills classes.. Then Fundies was invented as workshop to help prepare people and later developed into a full blown class..
So as a future Tec or Cave diver, see a fundies class not just as an awesome way to improve your diving, but also as an insurance policy of sorts on your Tec1 or Cave1 class, because the chances of being successful post a "tec-pass" graduation in a fundamentals class and obtaining a certification for the $2,500 you will spend on a Cave1 class on Mexico, is EXPONENTIALLY higher if you had gone through a system to lay the base foundational layer and fully prepare your for that Cave1 class.
In for example a Tec1 class, the instructor is NOT there to teach you how to do valve drills, S-Drills, kicks, boyancy, SMB deployments, safe ascents on a line with perfect stops, etc. etc. etc… The focus of that class is to teach you entry level decompression diving and if you dont walk into a class with all the GUE fundamental skills buttoned down 100% according to the GUE Standard Operating Procedures, you WILL have a hard time in that class and you may end up spending thousands of dollars to learn how to perform a valve drill mid-water without losing buoyancy..
All of a sudden 4 days and $700 seems like a great investment to help you prepare towards success..
Last edited:
eelnoraa
Contributor
GUE-F discussion is all well and good. But the OP wants to skip ahead to Tech2 (or possibly Cave2, its not clear to me)
Not to try and pick on any specific agency, but there are prime examples out there of what in my personal opinion makes "cross-over" programs a recipe for disaster..
These cross-overs simply requires some paperwork and money to obtain another agency's certs and teaching credentials (yes, even technical teaching creds..) it is assumed that your existing training and skill is adequate with zero validation..
For all practical purposes you could pay your way through those zero to hero instructor-mills, then fill out some paperwork and pay some money and all of a sudden you can teach for another agency NO questions asked and no in-water skills or teaching skills physically evaluated nor any eyes on you to see if you can even safely dive or conduct a class.
So the end result is that if 2 people jump in the water, they may even both have the exact same certifying agency's cert card, but in actual fact the one diver is not even trained by the same agency at all let alone the same procedures and sequencing… it makes for a total nightmare in an emergency to guess how your buddy will be responding and how you should react in kind.. There are big enough gaps between instructors from the same agency out there, let alone these blind cross-overs.. in my opinion no agency should allow blind cross-overs. its a recipe for disaster.
To the contrary, what attracts me (and probably most others) to GUE is that for me as a GUE diver, I am 100% assured that when I drop in on a dive with another GUE diver at the same training level, I am pretty much guaranteed that we have had for the most part identical training in both quality and procedural compatibility, so there is NO question in my mind about my safety on that dive with that person or how to respond or how they will respond in an emergency.. that makes for much less drama during my diving..
For this reason you will find it hard to find GUE divers that will be OK with someone to just "jump in" on a technical dive with them. This is also a way for GUE to protect and shield our divers from this disaster by fiercely protecting the sanctity of our certifications through generally not allowing cross overs of any kind.
This said, I dive with many non-gue divers, and with some we have been diving together for so long that over the years of mentoring each other we have found a middle ground on doing fun dives together without any drama.. but I will be pretty hard pressed to do any meaningful T2 and beyond dives on a whim with non-GUE crew..
.
These cross-overs simply requires some paperwork and money to obtain another agency's certs and teaching credentials (yes, even technical teaching creds..) it is assumed that your existing training and skill is adequate with zero validation..
For all practical purposes you could pay your way through those zero to hero instructor-mills, then fill out some paperwork and pay some money and all of a sudden you can teach for another agency NO questions asked and no in-water skills or teaching skills physically evaluated nor any eyes on you to see if you can even safely dive or conduct a class.
So the end result is that if 2 people jump in the water, they may even both have the exact same certifying agency's cert card, but in actual fact the one diver is not even trained by the same agency at all let alone the same procedures and sequencing… it makes for a total nightmare in an emergency to guess how your buddy will be responding and how you should react in kind.. There are big enough gaps between instructors from the same agency out there, let alone these blind cross-overs.. in my opinion no agency should allow blind cross-overs. its a recipe for disaster.
To the contrary, what attracts me (and probably most others) to GUE is that for me as a GUE diver, I am 100% assured that when I drop in on a dive with another GUE diver at the same training level, I am pretty much guaranteed that we have had for the most part identical training in both quality and procedural compatibility, so there is NO question in my mind about my safety on that dive with that person or how to respond or how they will respond in an emergency.. that makes for much less drama during my diving..
For this reason you will find it hard to find GUE divers that will be OK with someone to just "jump in" on a technical dive with them. This is also a way for GUE to protect and shield our divers from this disaster by fiercely protecting the sanctity of our certifications through generally not allowing cross overs of any kind.
This said, I dive with many non-gue divers, and with some we have been diving together for so long that over the years of mentoring each other we have found a middle ground on doing fun dives together without any drama.. but I will be pretty hard pressed to do any meaningful T2 and beyond dives on a whim with non-GUE crew..
.
I just said I want to know about the experiences. I know enough now. There are some possibilities written, but that are made impossible for outsiders, even if they maybe have good reasons. If you critisize this, then you are wrong. But it is allowed to write bad about other ways of diving. I have done my courses with different agencies, some courses where fine, some not. But there was never a feeling of not welcome. But I have this feeling here sadly.
Maybe divers are afraid of asking the question I asked that you cannot find experiences becuase they did not ask too?
Maybe divers are afraid of asking the question I asked that you cannot find experiences becuase they did not ask too?
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LiteHedded
Contributor
it's not impossible though. you just need to do the checkout dive.
i've skipped a class. AJ had a guy in his tech2 that passed cave 1 and tech 1 i believe. it's not impossible. i dont understand why you're so butthurt. just email an IE and ask them?
i wouldn't expect it to be easy though
LiteHedded is right, e-mail in IE an ask for a cross-over.. there IS provision in the standard to do it, you may have to fly them in or go to them and dont expect it to buy the IE a coffee and talk him into signing off without due diligence and skills checkout dive(s).
Find your IE of choice here: http://www.globalunderwaterexplorers.org/node/2424
BTW - What class did you skip, LiteHedded? And who signed you off?
Who were the other person and which agency cert did they have an who signed them off on Tec1 and Cave1 with just a checkout dive?
Find your IE of choice here: http://www.globalunderwaterexplorers.org/node/2424
BTW - What class did you skip, LiteHedded? And who signed you off?
Who were the other person and which agency cert did they have an who signed them off on Tec1 and Cave1 with just a checkout dive?
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