Compass issues

[cascas]

There is never a total absence of visual reference. Tiny particles are always floating around you. Use them. Make use of the available options, there is never a situation where there are no options. You just need to find them.

 

[Oldbear]

I have several 100 dives with this compass and have no issues with its performance.

Deluxe Pro Compass w/Bungee Mount and Cord
https://www.divegearexpress.com/tools/compass.shtml

 

[Roatan Joe]

If 6-10 feet is your max Vis, you will have to adapt the frequency of checking for a new point.
Best option is to get your general direction from your compass and find 2 or preferably 3 objects that are as much in line of the direction you are going, constantly looking for more objects further away. These objects can be as small as just details in the bottom. Every now and then verify your compass for direction.
Bottom line is that you need to look where you want to go to get there. Closing your eyes or staring at a compass will make you swim circles.
I regularly dive in Vis that low. Been doing it for 17 years.

Sorry I don't understand. How is it possible to veer off course if you stare at the needle, keep the compass level and keep the needle on course 100% of the time? I have never swam in a circle while keeping the needle on course. I for one don't understand how it would be physically possible to swim in a circle, all while keeping the needle on course. A person would have to start swimming sidways, backwards and then sideways, then forward again in order to make a circle while pointing on course the entire time. This is all assuming there's no current.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't know.....

I dive in muck on a regular basis and teach students they MUST watch the compass 100% of the time when actually doing navigation skills. If they veer off course it's because they aren't holding the compass level and it's not freely turning OR they aren't paying attention to the compass and properly turning in the correct direction to get back on course. Good compass navagation in the muck requires rock solid buoyancy skills and 100% attention on the compass reading.

Yes, I have seen more than one student swim in circles, but the compass wasn't indicating they were on course while doing it.

 

[Storker]

Sorry I don't understand. How is it possible to veer off course if you stare at the needle

Well, the 'swimming in a circle' thing is obvious hyperbole. But it's quite easy to veer off course if you keep staring at the needle, because it's extremely easy to NOT

keep the needle on course 100% of the time

It's the lenght of the sightline that counts. The same principle that makes it fairly easy to hit a target at 100m with a rifle, but rather difficult to hit the same target at 25m with a snub-nosed handgun.

I dive in muck on a regular basis and teach students they MUST watch the compass 100% of the time when actually doing navigation skills.

In that case, what you're teaching goes against everything that's known about compass navigation, both topside and underwater. There's a very good reason that the standard procedure is to take a sighting along the lubber line at an object at some distance instead of trundling along with your nose to the needle. Particularly if there's a bit of current pulling you off course.


--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[AfterDark]

Thanks man. I'm just working on my AOW right now; I have my OW. I'll be up there the weekend of the 17th-19th, but if I can swing it, I might try to come up a day early and/or stay a day late to do some more diving. We shall see how the work/school schedule goes.

Thanks. That thing is really cool. What sold me was the slate/compass combo, which gave me the option to keep data very handy, and write up whatever I needed underwater. I really like your board, and I will be making up one of these for sure.

My instructor told me the exact same thing. I trolled around for a while and couldn't find a single one. Apparently they are THE compass, and if anyone has one, they are not likely to part with it.


What you are saying compares quite nicely to land nav, which I am pretty familiar. Basically, you just go from point to point which is pretty easy. Where I am diving, visibility may be 6-10 feet sometimes, and that style of nav just won't work. Unfortunately, in certain conditions, following the compass and swimming along are the only ways to go.

Great that offer is good for as long as I last Keeping look those LS-1 are out there. When you troll on Ebay pay attention to the consoles sometimes you find a LS-1 mounted on the console and the seller has no idea what he has! Keep looking you'll find one or if I do I'll send you the link via PM. Good luck on your AWO it'll be fine a piece of cake.

You're correct about the use of the compass in low vis staring at it isn't necessary but frequent checks are a must and if you're in current LARGE corrections and more frequent checks are required to compensate; it ain't land nav, the wind can't take me of course doing land nav.

 

[Roatan Joe]

In that case, what you're teaching goes against everything that's known about compass navigation, both topside and underwater. There's a very good reason that the standard procedure is to take a sighting along the lubber line at an object at some distance instead of trundling along with your nose to the needle. Particularly if there's a bit of current pulling you off course.

Again underwater navagation in the muck doesn't afford you the opportunity to swim point to point like you describe. When the VIS is only a few feet it's just not possible. Things are a bit different in local freshwater quarries with no current. Yes, if you're on the surface taking a heading by sighting along the lubber to a visual reference that can be seen on the surface is great. But when you descend down into muck where vis is only a few feet, you better "trundle along with your nose to the needle" or else you will be most likely never find what you're looking for.

In any event, I only had a question about the comment about swimming in a circle because that just didn't make sense to me and I was afraid I was missing something.

 

[Storker]

Things are a bit different in local freshwater quarries with no current.

That may well be, I've never dived in a freshwater quarry, so I wouldn't know. My local diving is in the sea, with zero to moderate current and viz in the range from 2m to - at the best, and then only during fall and winter - 10-15m.

---------- Post added October 11th, 2014 at 09:07 AM ----------

if you're in current LARGE corrections and more frequent checks are required to compensate; it ain't land nav, the wind can't take me of course doing land nav.

Which is why I prefer to aim for some kind of feature (stone, kelp plant, whatever) out there at the edge if viz rather than follow my compass needle. That way, current won't affect my course as much and there'll be less cumulative error from being swept sideways.


--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[AfterDark]

That may well be, I've never dived in a freshwater quarry, so I wouldn't know. My local diving is in the sea, with zero to moderate current and viz in the range from 2m to - at the best, and then only during fall and winter - 10-15m.

---------- Post added October 11th, 2014 at 09:07 AM ----------



Which is why I prefer to aim for some kind of feature (stone, kelp plant, whatever) out there at the edge if viz rather than follow my compass needle. That way, current won't affect my course as much and there'll be less cumulative error from being swept sideways.


--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

That's fine so in 1.5M'vis you'll be reshooting an azimuth every 1.5M. In zero vis you leave your compass on land?

This is the reality the OP could be looking at doing his AOW nav cert here in RI where I've dived for the last 44 years. I had 2.5M of vis this last dive on 10-10 that's about avg. for RI. If they go to Fort Wetherill which is more likely than not the vis will be less, more like 1.5M. Shooting an azimuth every 1.5M could I think constitute staring at ones compass. Or like I posted checking your course often because by the time you get a fix on an object in 1.5m of vis you've passed it.

 

[cascas]

Sorry I don't understand. How is it possible to veer off course if you stare at the needle, keep the compass level and keep the needle on course 100% of the time? I have never swam in a circle while keeping the needle on course. I for one don't understand how it would be physically possible to swim in a circle, all while keeping the needle on course. A person would have to start swimming sidways, backwards and then sideways, then forward again in order to make a circle while pointing on course the entire time. This is all assuming there's no current.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't know.....

I dive in muck on a regular basis and teach students they MUST watch the compass 100% of the time when actually doing navigation skills. If they veer off course it's because they aren't holding the compass level and it's not freely turning OR they aren't paying attention to the compass and properly turning in the correct direction to get back on course. Good compass navagation in the muck requires rock solid buoyancy skills and 100% attention on the compass reading.

Yes, I have seen more than one student swim in circles, but the compass wasn't indicating they were on course while doing it.

A bit late but at the first try the board was offline for maintenance. so at the risk of posting a double answer here goes _thanks to the auto save option of this forum_:


If you are swimming ( not diving) in a pool with your eyes closed, it is almost impossible to swim in a straight line. When diving it is the same. If you are looking at your compass 100% of the time, the same happens, but because you have the info from the compass you automatically correct. This can ( it doesn't always because everyone has his/her own deviation at any moment in time) cause you to move sort of diagonally. That means you are swimming in the correct direction, but not to the point you want to go to.

example : there are 10 objects evenly spaced at the far side of a lake. you set your compass heading to object number 5
depending on your deviation you will arrive at one of the objects either left or right from object 5. For some it will be 1 object off, others will be 5 objects off. it all depends on your anatomy and gear.

The best way to swim in a straight line is to project that line over objects you see in the water that are aligned with your intended compass heading. The objects can be floating particles, stones, branches, debris, entire wrecks, all depending on the available visibility.

Of course this all is just my perception of how navigation should be done, others might have entirely different and working methods. This is just what works for me

 

[musicalmike]

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